Hearthstone

[Frag]

Blizzard has a new game coming out, Hearthstone. It's a bit like the card games that used to be found in games like Final Fantasy 8, where it is a riff off of the base game (in this case, World of Warcraft) and a dumb-downed Magic: The Gathering.

I've been following the Twitch.tv crowd that's been streaming the closed beta for a while, put my hat in the beta lottery and two days later, was given a key. Keys up to about 2 weeks ago were worth thousands of dollars on Ebay and associated websites, so Blizzard upped the outgoing invites by a huge amount and I feel like if you're interested you probably have a decent shot if you sign up.

As for the game itself, if you've played MTG, you're going to be years ahead of the game. It is what Magic would be if you removed mana (Gain one per turn), interrupts (only can play spells on your turn), infested some of the best cards with wicked RNG (fully utilizing the fact it's a video game, things that would be targeted effects or impossible in MTG are fully randomized), and cut decks to 30 cards. Despite these changes (faults, depending on perspective), it's rather enjoyable and free as long as you don't suck too badly and don't mind losing to better cards for a bit as you grind your way up. Finally, there is a ladder, ranks, achievements, and the usual trappings of a modern Blizzard title, including an e-sports scene.

I'm happy to discuss strategy, card evaluations, picks in arena and more or less anything game related here, in mumble or teamspeak. Feel free to also PM me for my Battle tag if you're in, or not in but want to chat while I am.

Cheers.

[DeeBye]

It's a bit like the card games that used to be found in games like Final Fantasy 8

SOLD!

Triple Triad was my favourite thing to do in FF8.

[Frag]

It's a bit like the card games that used to be found in games like Final Fantasy 8

SOLD!

Triple Triad was my favourite thing to do in FF8.

Me too! That was a hilarious waste of time. This is, unfortunately, far more balanced.

[Bolty]

I have a beta key (hmm, luck, OR DOES BOLTY STILL HAVE SECRET CONNECTIONS) but no time to play it. Any websites that have a Nub Guide to Card Games Like These for someone who has never played Magic: the Gathering? Oh, and is there someone who can extend the Earth's rotation so that we have 26-hour days and I can find the time to try this game out in between work, family, raiding, valor capping, conquest capping, and wasting my life on the Timeless Isle? kthx!

[Frag]

I found this explanation of terms on reddit that might help. I'm also available almost any evening if you want a walkthrough.

On another note, I was severely chastised by a co-worker for not recording/streaming my start into the game last night, so I will try to do so going forward.

[kandrathe]

Triple Triad was my favourite thing to do in FF8.

It was my obsession also.

[Frag]

Some math on the chances if you are mulliganing for a single card that you will be able to play that card on the turn you have the mana to do so.

Where N is the copies of the card in your deck and C is the casting cost of the card and where you do not draw any additional cards through game effects.

Playing First

Code:

N\C         1         2         3         4         5         6         7
1        22.00%    25.00%    28.00%    31.00%    34.00%    37.00%    40.00%
2        39.71%    42.03%    44.35%    46.67%    48.99%    51.31%    53.63%
3        53.86%    55.64%    57.41%    59.19%    60.96%    62.74%    64.51%
4        65.07%    66.41%    67.75%    69.10%    70.44%    71.78%    73.13%
5        73.85%    74.86%    75.86%    76.87%    77.87%    78.88%    79.89%
6        80.67%    81.41%    82.16%    82.90%    83.64%    84.39%    85.13%
7        85.91%    86.45%    86.99%    87.53%    88.07%    88.62%    89.16%
8        89.88%    90.26%    90.65%    91.04%    91.43%    91.82%    92.21%
9        92.85%    93.12%    93.40%    93.67%    93.95%    94.22%    94.50%
10        95.04%    95.23%    95.42%    95.61%    95.80%    95.99%    96.18%

Playing Second

Code:

N\C         1         2         3         4         5         6         7
1         27.78%    30.67%    33.56%    36.44%    39.33%    42.22%    45.11%
2         48.47%    50.54%    52.60%    54.66%    56.72%    58.78%    60.84%
3         63.72%    65.17%    66.62%    68.07%    69.53%    70.98%    72.43%
4         74.82%    75.83%    76.83%    77.84%    78.85%    79.86%    80.86%
5         82.79%    83.48%    84.17%    84.86%    85.54%    86.23%    86.92%
6         88.44%    88.90%    89.36%    89.82%    90.29%    90.75%    91.21%
7         92.37%    92.68%    92.98%    93.29%    93.59%    93.90%    94.20%
8         95.07%    95.26%    95.46%    95.66%    95.86%    96.05%    96.25%
9         96.88%    97.01%    97.13%    97.26%    97.38%    97.51%    97.63%
10        98.08%    98.15%    98.23%    98.31%    98.38%    98.46%    98.54%

[NiteFox]

Well, after applying for the random lottery draws of every single closed beta of a Blizzard game since... God knows when, I finally strike it lucky with Hearthstone.

Computer TCGs are a niche thing I've actually been interested in, but so far the market best game has been Duel of the Plainswalkers, and even then I sometimes find myself staring at a card's description and wondering what exactly it's supposed to actually do. I think that years of Magic loophole abuse causes card designers to offer rigid explanations of cards in great and boring detail rather than plain English.

So how does Hearthstone fare in that regards?

Edit: Okay, yeah; this game's a keeper for the card flavour text alone.

[Frag]

The card flavor text is amazing. The highlight to me is that Venture Co. Mercenary one of my favorite creatures, the flavor text is perfect and from my favorite movie.

[Kevin]

So I just got a beta for this. I've never really done the card games like Magic and never played FF8 either so my experience with the concept is mostly limited to theory. It's a Blizzard game so my assumption is that it will be easy to jump in and have some fun with, but will take some outside research to really get good at, since that is what pretty much all their games work like. I'm wondering if it's worth the time to even pop in and look at it. I think I've spent about 2 hours in the last 3 weeks on video games and that was just messing around in Re-Volt (thank you GoG for releasing a version that works flawlessly on Win7). This seems like something that might be pretty easy to jump in and out of if you have a few minutes here or there to kill.

I suppose I could read the whole thread too....

[NiteFox]

Ugh, I think I need to actually start thinking about constructing my own decks.

I'm still using default build decks while I work towards unlocking all the basic cards. Shaman is my current project, and since I was actually close to completing two of my quests after my first free Arena run (Kill 40 minions and do 100 damage to your opponent) I actually decided to try out a game in Play Mode. My Shaman vs a random Paladin, and I completely sucked for the first half of the match; going down to about 4-30 at one point.

Then I actually started pulling back; my hand kept giving minions, so I had to keep trading to prevent getting wiped out. I had one Hex in my starting hand which was wisely spent on a Booty Bay Bodyguard. I eventually got the match down to 2-7, full board of totems and a Shieldmasta. Then I drew a Frostwolf Warlord which was promptly buffed to 9/9. Victory on the next turn.

Then he draws Consecration. Unavoidable 2 damage, killed me, and I could do nothing to counter it.

Sigh.

[DeeBye]

Ok this game is fun as hell.

edit: I can't stop playing!

[DeeBye]

I've been doing "Play" matches using a mage deck I chose, and either I am extremely awesome or my deck is hugely unbalanced. I am winning probably 9/10 matches, and of those wins more than half of them have me winning with more than 20 health remaining (and the opponent just giving up).

My strategy is to control the opponent's minions with a ton of low-cost Taunt minions of my own, and using low- to mid- cost minions that can buff my low-cost minions. I try to not allow the minions to directly attack me. It's working really well.

[Frag]

Mage currently has the best hero power, and you've figured out the basic strat of the game, board control. Well done job of understanding and taking advantages of the optimal base strats!

[NiteFox]

New update. A couple of nerfs to common strategies (Hunter OTK, Mind Control, etc.) most of which actually indirectly buff Mage.

Plus the ability to Mulligan a single Daily Quest per day if you don't like it. For example, I cancelled a "2x Shaman or Warlock Victories" quest and got... "2x Shaman or Warlock Victories". Hmm. Stuck with it in the end, Frostwolf Warlord is insane value in a Shaman deck, I'm discovering.

[MonTy]

Started playing the game and I'm pleasantly surprised how fun it is. Sure I miss instants from Magic:TG, but this game has its own charm. I've been grinding away constructed trying to get enough Gold for Arenas. Have this spellcaster Mage deck, charge Warrior deck, and beefy creatures druid deck. Hope to mess around with more classes soon, but those are what I know so far. Arena decks have been hit or miss. Best I've done is 7 wins, but I've had a few duds as well.

Anyone else still playing? If so, how's it going? What classes are you favouring?

[Frag]

Bored with playing it, far too easy for a ex-professional MTG player when sitting at my power computer with a ton of options to do during play-time. Not bad if I could play it on my phone though, definitely think that's what they're aiming for.

Favorite classes, Mage, Paladin, Shaman. All of them have at least some opportunity to outplay your opponent or just straight up get two-to-four for one trades. Shaman probably totally favorite, simply because you can actually play it as whatever the hell you want (early game, mid game, late game, burst, sustain, etc.. ) and it's viable.

[swirly]

I've been playing a Shaman deck based around battlecry creatures, brewmaster bounce creatures, and normal Shaman things. Looks like this.

1 Lightning Bolt (All I have)
2 Rockbiter Weapon (I debate if I would replace these with bolts/bursts/storms if I had more. They have their combos with the windfury guys though often they just get used on my hero to kill a small creature)
2 Abusive Sergeants (Early turn plays, late turn buff other creatures to kill things or get damage in)
1 Acidic Swamp Ooze (I debate two of these)
2 Flametongue Totem
1 Ironbeak Owl (All I have. Silence is strong)
1 Knife Juggler (Could be the second Ooze, Owl (if I get one), something else, but he is fun so I'm trying him for now. Only one I have)
2 Novie Engineer (Card draw and probably what I bounce back to my hand the most)
2 Youthful Brewmaster (Cheap bounce on a good body)
2 Hex
1 Lava Burst (All I have)
1 Lightning Storm (All I have)
2 Shattered Sun Cleric (I feel like there are better cards for this spot, but they aren't bad)
2 Ancient Brewmasters (More bounce on a bigger body)
1 Spellbreaker (All I have. Wish I had another to run)
2 Windspeaker
2 Bloodlust
2 Fire Elemental
1 Frost Elemental (All I have)

Only gotten to rank 17 with it, but considering that it is only 3 rare cards and everything else is below that; I feel like it runs alright. Lots of tweaks to be made to it as more cards are gained. Feels pretty flexible with how it plays to me. Can play aggressive with Flametongues, decent bodies on things, and bloodlust, but can also play as control with drawing/silence/kill too. Not a perfect deck by far, but I've been enjoying it.

I do have worries about the game in general. Worry about the strength of legendaries (not that you can't still beat them, but I worry about balance anyway.) Worry about deck limits with too many basic cards (would be so much more fun to be able to mix and match. I feel like 90% of priest decks play the same for example. Though I grant there is some flex too. Just wish there was more.) Worry that arena is much more fun than constructed. Worry at the cost of the crafting system (though I'm thankful to have one at all. I have used it for some cards, but I feel like the disenchant to create rate is too steep currently.)

All that said, I still like the game and expect to spend decent time on it. Especially since you can, with time, gain cards for free. Feel like I know several friends who aren't playing that will like it when it goes live too. So expect it will be a staple for a long time.

Like Frag, I do also feel that the mobile version will end up being my primary playing vehicle when it comes out. Though I don't go quite as far as he does with that. I still enjoy playing it on the comp. Granting that I've only had it for a week or two.

[MonTy]

Not bad if I could play it on my phone though, definitely think that's what they're aiming for.

Absolutely. I find it hard replacing my desktop gaming time with Hearthstone, but it has grabbed my attention enough to want to try out most classes and some arenas. I look forward to the mobile release.

I'm actually playing SolForge on the iPhone now, and I'm greatly enjoying that. But I just couldn't justify playing it on the PC.

Swirly, the Shaman deck looks interesting. I think I have a good amount of the cards you listed so will give it a try. Haven't spent too much time with the Shaman, and haven't done too well with the limited time I have. I've done well with the Mage, Warrior, Druid, and Warlock. Not so much other classes, but they're not even level ten yet, so have some playing to do.

I heard a lot of fuss about the Priest class and drafted to be what I thought a decent deck, but I got crushed. Believe I had too much 1 for 1 cards and not enough synergy to catapult me ahead. Reversely I've read a lot of people knocking the druid but I find it really strong late game. Healing + beefy creatures + weapon attacks. Sign me up!

[Chesspiece_face]

I heard a lot of fuss about the Priest class and drafted to be what I thought a decent deck, but I got crushed. Believe I had too much 1 for 1 cards and not enough synergy to catapult me ahead. Reversely I've read a lot of people knocking the druid but I find it really strong late game. Healing + beefy creatures + weapon attacks. Sign me up!

Priest is extremely weak right now. It was seriously strong for a while, but now you pretty much have to get lucky to have a chance.

For two cards you can have extremely strong creatures, but any other class out there can usually take that creature out with one card. Mind Control going up to 10 mana is pretty brutal. It's just a lot of heavy investment when your opponent can topple your plans with little effort.

Disappointing as that is the class I enjoyed most.

Other thoughts on this game:

The smaller decks mean that balancing Control is brutal if not impossible. Combine that with starting with 30 health as opposed to 20 and it rules out a lot of play options. In Magic you have the option to flood the play field with mini fast attacks because by the time control builds up you have them low enough that they are still in threat of losing. Not possible in Hearth stone as at that point in this game they will still have 10-15 health.

One of the stronger points in Magic was the ability for cards to create new win conditions. I don't foresee any real combo decks being allowed in Hearthstone (see smaller deck size) but the game already feels like a top deck war where every turn your are flipping a coin to see who wins.

We'll see if they are able to get any longevity out of this. As it stands for me every battle feels the same. In their effort to simplify and condense the CCG experience I hope they didn't drain it of any chance for growth.