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An Interesting Take on BLM
06-25-2017, 03:41 PM
Post: #1
An Interesting Take on BLM




This is pretty much exactly what I've felt all along, that for whatever reason, they create their own reality like a self fulfilling prophecy; pretty much in diametric opposition to FITs racist anti-white point of view.

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06-25-2017, 05:14 PM (This post was last modified: 06-25-2017 11:29 PM by FireIceTalon.)
Post: #2
RE: An Interesting Take on BLM
(06-25-2017 03:41 PM)Taem Wrote:  pretty much in diametric opposition to FITs racist anti-white point of view.

Rolleyes This is cute, if rather predictable. Taem opens mouth, and the foot goes right in almost automatically lol.

Firstly, fuck your revisionism. We've been over this several times before. You were wrong then, and you are still wrong now. You still have not figured out what racism is, or how it functions structurally in society.

Just the mere fact you use a "blame the victim" narrative like this video (cause its much easier to do that, afterall) to justify the every day economic and social oppresssion that blacks face is in itself, not only racist, but all the more shameful in that you try to further vindicate it by using a black speaker to cover up your white supremacist views! Fucking a, I don't think even Ashock has dipped this low, yet. I've seen this very same video used by other white supremacists in social media as a shield to cover up or justify their crud, but no one is buying it.

Meanwhile. You've also been quoted in the past as attempting to correlate intelligence to skin color. Last time I checked, it was also you who holds views that sound like they came straight out of a German classroom circa 1936, but then you have the audacity to call me racist?? You can't be serious, son! SMH.

Secondly, my view is not anti-white, but rather anti-white supremacist - just as my view towards Israel is not anti-semitism, but anti-Zionist. You really haven't a clue as to how any of this shit works do you? The irony of it is, by attacking my view you only assist in showing that it is you who is in fact the racist. This could easily be proven by the fact the people over at Stormfront.com would welcome your viewpoint with open arms. I don't post over at SF, but it's a safe bet my views wouldn't be welcome there. Not that I give a single fuck, ofc.

You know, maybe you should get off the internet and go take a few sociology courses at your local community college or something. At least then, you wouldn't come off sounding nearly as dumb as you do now. Your current lack of understanding and knowledge of sociological issues, especially those concerning race and class, is so deep that sometimes it's hard to tell if you are trolling or if you actually believe the crap you spew, but I suspect the latter.

You are right about one thing - our views are indeed diametrically opposite, but your perception of where we stand on the issue is backwards from what they actually are. Your racist view is an untenable one, and quite frankly, on the wrong side of history. That's bad enough, but the fact you use a video from a black person to try and validate your shitty view on top of it makes it even more cringe worthy.

/this tactless thread

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06-25-2017, 07:49 PM (This post was last modified: 06-25-2017 08:06 PM by kandrathe.)
Post: #3
RE: An Interesting Take on BLM
(06-25-2017 03:41 PM)Taem Wrote:  



This is pretty much exactly what I've felt all along, that for whatever reason, they create their own reality like a self fulfilling prophecy; pretty much in diametric opposition to FITs racist anti-white point of view.
Smile FIT slam. In fairness, I remember his position was more that only whites could be racists. And, only POC suffer from racism.

I work daily with a guy who emigrated from Kenya. We've become good friends. I think he would agree in part with that video, but we have discussed the issue of institutional racism too. It is not overt. It's more like if given the option of hiring a white person with a seemingly squeaky clean suburban history or a non white person from a crime ridden part of town, the safe route is taken. Then also, we tend to learn about jobs from our social network which tends to include many people that look like us who grew up in similar places. In crime, it stems from unequal treatment by the police. Or, in other words, in both cases, prejudice.

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06-25-2017, 08:00 PM (This post was last modified: 06-25-2017 11:37 PM by FireIceTalon.)
Post: #4
RE: An Interesting Take on BLM
(06-25-2017 07:49 PM)kandrathe Wrote:  Smile FIT slam.

Not really. There is no coming back for him after my last post. He would have some nerve if he showed his face in this thread again, or at the very least, he will likely have to pretend my post doesn't exist.


Quote:In fairness, I remember his position was more that only whites could be racists. And, only POC suffer from racism.

A position which I still firmly and unapologetically hold. That doesn't make me racist, just that I (correctly) acknowledge we have a system that favors whites over blacks and other minorities in nearly every sphere. When black people punch upward towards white supremacy and oppression, THAT IS NOT RACISM. White people seem to have the idea that any fight for equality by POC, or attacks on white privilege is somehow racist, which is laughable. You may have individual situations where blacks could be predjudice towards whites, but it doesn't mean anything since whites enjoy economic and social advantages and privileges everywhere, and have so throughout this country's history.

I don't hate white people. I do hate white supremacy, however. Taem doesn't understand that there is a difference between these things.

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06-25-2017, 08:17 PM (This post was last modified: 06-25-2017 08:20 PM by kandrathe.)
Post: #5
RE: An Interesting Take on BLM
Quote:A position which I still hold. That doesn't make me racist, just that I (correctly) acknowledge we have a system that favors whites over blacks and other minorities in nearly every sphere. When black people punch upward towards white supremacy and oppression, THAT IS NOT RACISM. You may have individual situations where blacks could be predjudice towards whites, but it doesn't mean anything since whites enjoy economic and social advantages and privileges everywhere, and have so throughout this country's history.
I would maintain that prejudice is an injustice to whoever it victimizes. The proper cure to injustice is the reasoned application of justice, reconciliation and reparations. When Nelson Mandela was freed from prison and elevated to president of South Africa, he could have motivated his nation to burn itself to the ground. But... what did he do in response to their legacy of racism and colonialism?

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06-26-2017, 12:27 AM (This post was last modified: 06-26-2017 12:50 AM by Archon_Wing.)
Post: #6
RE: An Interesting Take on BLM
Not without merit, but to downplay black people as a whole because of excessive focus on BLM seems a bit tunnel visoned?

"It comes down to the individual"
"Correlation does not imply Causation"

< Then makes generalizations based on various picked statistics. Tongue

> Also Asians is a fucking huge group. And despite their overall "success", the disparity exists quite a bit between the rich and poor-- and it is huge. And of course, just because some Asians are successful seems to be always the convenient way of justifying racism all around. It's just your typical divide and conquer shit. They're not all the same either, but I suppose people don't care about that. Then again white people are apparently a huge group too that are all homogenous too.

The failure here is comparing black people against other groups, when they should be comparing poor people of different groups against each other. As the reason poor people get caught in the downward spiral is class and race is merely just one part of the equation. In other words, focus on why poor people are poor and not this faction bullshit.

I thought by now, a lot of you would have gotten tired of identity politics, but why are we dwelling on it?

It is funny that people who want to see things as fair and want to be colorblind to race cannot stop bringing it up. I think both sides have a lot more in common then they think, mainly because they're filled with fucktards.

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06-26-2017, 01:00 AM (This post was last modified: 06-26-2017 01:26 AM by FireIceTalon.)
Post: #7
RE: An Interesting Take on BLM
I am definitely tired of identity politics in general. Capitalist society is fundamentally divided more by class than by anything else. But that being said...

It would also be in error to say that persons in every ethnic group are equally mistreated or oppressed, because that isn't the case. Race and class unquestionably intersect, along with gender, sexual orientation and disability. These things cannot be treated abstractly from one another.

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06-26-2017, 07:37 AM
Post: #8
RE: An Interesting Take on BLM
(06-26-2017 12:27 AM)Archon_Wing Wrote:  Not without merit, but to downplay black people as a whole because of excessive focus on BLM seems a bit tunnel visoned?

"It comes down to the individual"
"Correlation does not imply Causation"

< Then makes generalizations based on various picked statistics. Tongue

> Also Asians is a fucking huge group. And despite their overall "success", the disparity exists quite a bit between the rich and poor-- and it is huge. And of course, just because some Asians are successful seems to be always the convenient way of justifying racism all around. It's just your typical divide and conquer shit. They're not all the same either, but I suppose people don't care about that. Then again white people are apparently a huge group too that are all homogenous too.

The failure here is comparing black people against other groups, when they should be comparing poor people of different groups against each other. As the reason poor people get caught in the downward spiral is class and race is merely just one part of the equation. In other words, focus on why poor people are poor and not this faction bullshit.

Well tbh, I felt the video was a fresh take on retooled concepts, and from someone who clearly felt the need to correct the serous issues befalling blacks due undoubtedly to her identifying as such. You are correct that this is mostly about class, but she makes some great points about affording more grant money to black in college having no meaningful impact due to their retention rate... so clearly money is also not the issue as you make it seem. I think there is more truth to her words than is being acknowledged here.

(06-26-2017 12:27 AM)Archon_Wing Wrote:  I thought by now, a lot of you would have gotten tired of identity politics, but why are we dwelling on it?

As I said, a fresh take on old concepts with a huge potential to help millions without looking down upon them in any way... what's the downside here, please enlighten me? She's only advocating teaching safe sex, respect for each other, and hard work. What's so wrong with this? I'm quite certain she's on to the truth, but if you sincerely feel the current status quo on how either blacks (or the poor as you put it) treat each other is having such a positive meaningful impact in our current culture, then I suppose her positive ideas are nothing more than gutter trash for ignorant hopefuls like myself.

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06-26-2017, 07:49 AM
Post: #9
RE: An Interesting Take on BLM
(06-25-2017 05:14 PM)FireIceTalon Wrote:  expected obligatory knee-jerk reaction from FIT

Try watching the video and listening to what she is saying. None of it is negative, and her message is very positive and encouraging. What the fuck is wrong with you FIT? Seriously... You seem to think everything in this world must go exactly according to how you view it or it's against you and your views. There is no room for nonconformity in your perfect little totalitarian world. Someone has a positive message for their culture and you belittle and bemoan it as if you are part of her culture... this after text walls by you shunning the rich white man as the anti-christ in way too many threads to list (which is a form of racism you fucking idiot)... the hypocrisy is mind shattering here! Go crawl back under your bridge so the grownups can have an actual conversation about issues with broad meaning and deep consequence. Perhaps a moderator who gives a shit on these boards will perma-ban you for all our sakes.

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06-26-2017, 01:34 PM (This post was last modified: 06-26-2017 05:46 PM by FireIceTalon.)
Post: #10
RE: An Interesting Take on BLM
(06-26-2017 07:49 AM)Taem Wrote:  [quote='FireIceTalon' pid='213850' dateline='1498410869']
expected obligatory knee-jerk reaction from FIT

Say what? You take accusatory jabs at me (that have no merit to begin with) and on top of that you are guiltier than shit for that which you accuse me of, and then you expect me not call you out on it?? Now you just show how extremely naive you are. Not to mention, hypocritical. At this point, you HAVE TO be trolling, surely?

Quote:There is no room for white supremacy in your perfect little totalitarian world.


Fixed that for you. Indeed, there would be no room for your kind in our "totalitarian world". White supremacy and white supremacists only belong in one place: the ash heap of history. As for it being "totalitarian" (meaningless buzzword), that is a subjective assertion at best, and really a matter of perspective. One of the goals of the communist movement is to CRUSH reaction; and mercilessly so. And we make no apology about that; we in fact don't give a single fuck what your kind thinks or has to say about our movement - we are not here to appease you. What is "totalitarian" for you and your ilk will be "democratic" (another buzzword, but I'm dumbing it down for you) & liberating for millions of others. Your white supremacist, oppressive worldview has no place in communism, nor should it.

Quote:Someone has a positive message for their culture and you belittle and bemoan it as if you are part of her culture

You seem to think that just because she is black and happens to echo your (shitty) view, that somehow confirms said viewpoint to be the correct one. I will take pride in being the bearer of bad news for you: IT DOESN'T. I'm sure plenty of white people also agreed with Will Smith and Oprah when they said that "black people have no excuse anymore" when Obama - the first black American president in over 200 fucking years - first got elected, as if racism suddenly came to a screeching halt as a result of that election, and that the preceding 400+ years just magically never happened Rolleyes. But moreover...

The fact you use a video from a black person (I've watched the video before you did, and she is wrong on many points, uses cherry picked statistics, half truths and popular narratives to reduce class struggle down to an abstract concept of individuality and free will - its laughable) to echo your white nationalist views is disgusting. You are beyond shameful.

Some people here might buy your 'fascism cloaked in freedom & equality' bullshit, but I don't. GTFO.

Quote:... this after text walls by you shunning the rich white man as the anti-christ in way too many threads to list (which is a form of racism you fucking idiot)

Rolleyes Rolleyes You really are a chuckle a minute, aren't ya? This is just another shield to hide your white supremacist views or deflect blame onto someone else. Sorry to inform you: No, me attacking the capitalist class and the capitalist system is not racist, though I'm sure you'd love to think so. Try again.

The mere fact you are whining about me doing so just shows your white privilege and that you are a beneficiary of the present order of things - it's no surprise you have a shit fit when that system gets ruthlessly critiqued - because an attack on capitalism, is, at the same time, also an attack on white supremacy.

Quote:Go crawl back under your bridge so the grownups can have an actual conversation about issues with broad meaning and deep consequence. Perhaps a moderator who gives a shit on these boards will perma-ban you for all our sakes.

Considering the mods here are generally liberals who seem to have a soft spot for fascism and white supremacy (despite them saying otherwise), me being perma-banned at some point is probably not out of the question. Frankly, I don't give a rats ass. Them banning me would only prove me right about what I just said, and that bourgeois democracy is not nearly as "tolerant" as it claims to be.

That being said, until then, I am going to call your ass out when you say dumb shit. Which is almost every time you post something related to politics. On nearly every such occasion your white sumpremacy can't help but show itself.

You don't want a conversation with "broad meaning" or "deep consequence" (whatever the fuck those things mean anyway). No, what you really want is an uninterupted Nazi circle jerk with your white supremacist buddies on how superior whites are to blacks, and how blacks being poor is their own fault. Stormfront awaits you, go. Or, you can always attend a Tea Party rally or a KKK meeting. You'd fit right in, perfectly.

Again, you've linked race to intelligence before. That is all that needs to be said. But go ahead, keep making a fool of yourself. I need some comedic relief to help get me through my work day.


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06-26-2017, 06:16 PM (This post was last modified: 06-26-2017 06:25 PM by Archon_Wing.)
Post: #11
RE: An Interesting Take on BLM
(06-26-2017 07:37 AM)Taem Wrote:  
(06-26-2017 12:27 AM)Archon_Wing Wrote:  Not without merit, but to downplay black people as a whole because of excessive focus on BLM seems a bit tunnel visoned?

"It comes down to the individual"
"Correlation does not imply Causation"

< Then makes generalizations based on various picked statistics. Tongue

> Also Asians is a fucking huge group. And despite their overall "success", the disparity exists quite a bit between the rich and poor-- and it is huge. And of course, just because some Asians are successful seems to be always the convenient way of justifying racism all around. It's just your typical divide and conquer shit. They're not all the same either, but I suppose people don't care about that. Then again white people are apparently a huge group too that are all homogenous too.

The failure here is comparing black people against other groups, when they should be comparing poor people of different groups against each other. As the reason poor people get caught in the downward spiral is class and race is merely just one part of the equation. In other words, focus on why poor people are poor and not this faction bullshit.

Well tbh, I felt the video was a fresh take on retooled concepts, and from someone who clearly felt the need to correct the serous issues befalling blacks due undoubtedly to her identifying as such. You are correct that this is mostly about class, but she makes some great points about affording more grant money to black in college having no meaningful impact due to their retention rate... so clearly money is also not the issue as you make it seem. I think there is more truth to her words than is being acknowledged here.

(06-26-2017 12:27 AM)Archon_Wing Wrote:  I thought by now, a lot of you would have gotten tired of identity politics, but why are we dwelling on it?

As I said, a fresh take on old concepts with a huge potential to help millions without looking down upon them in any way... what's the downside here, please enlighten me? She's only advocating teaching safe sex, respect for each other, and hard work. What's so wrong with this? I'm quite certain she's on to the truth, but if you sincerely feel the current status quo on how either blacks (or the poor as you put it) treat each other is having such a positive meaningful impact in our current culture, then I suppose her positive ideas are nothing more than gutter trash for ignorant hopefuls like myself.

It should be fairly obvious, isn't it? The only way to move past race is to move on. This isn't fresh at all. It is an old recycled concept to explain why people are they way they are as a justification to push responsibility back on the people suffering. There's also a degree of truth in it too, because individuals should make choices for themselves instead of blaming it all on inequality but it's ultimately tunnel visioned because it's only one side of a coin.

Leave it back in the 1930s and 40s.

We should be in a time where we have to realize people are more diverse than 3 groups. This a'int Starcraft.

The more people get caught in past transgressions and the idea of "winning", the longer it will last. Now this doesn't mean people should forget what happened, but there's nothing productive being done here.

Oh yea, as for the rest of it correlation//causation. Well, I'm just going to say that there's a lack of control factors. Kinda amateurish, even for laymen.

The status quo, as you speak, is one of perpetual conflict, justification, and division, and I will have no part in it.

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06-26-2017, 07:00 PM
Post: #12
RE: An Interesting Take on BLM
(06-25-2017 08:00 PM)FireIceTalon Wrote:  A position which I still firmly and unapologetically hold. That doesn't make me racist, just that I (correctly) acknowledge we have a system that favors whites over blacks and other minorities in nearly every sphere. When black people punch upward towards white supremacy and oppression, THAT IS NOT RACISM. White people seem to have the idea that any fight for equality by POC, or attacks on white privilege is somehow racist, which is laughable. You may have individual situations where blacks could be predjudice towards whites, but it doesn't mean anything since whites enjoy economic and social advantages and privileges everywhere, and have so throughout this country's history.

I don't hate white people. I do hate white supremacy, however. Taem doesn't understand that there is a difference between these things.

I think there is a much bigger problem with the separation of rich and poor.
True, in many cases (in the US) blacks are more present in the poor communities, while for example in the Netherlands it is more arabian immigrants.


When people stop feeling part of a certain group of people just because they were born in a certain way they start looking at wealth......and this is finally a much bigger issue.....worldwide.
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06-26-2017, 09:54 PM (This post was last modified: 06-26-2017 10:41 PM by kandrathe.)
Post: #13
RE: An Interesting Take on BLM
(06-26-2017 12:27 AM)Archon_Wing Wrote:  ... In other words, focus on why poor people are poor and not this faction bullshit.
Yes. Part of the problem of this person's perspective is that it is as an emigrant, and we don't know what "privilege" her family had in helping them be positioned better for success. Certainly it was not the legacy of many urban poor in the US.

http://ryersonian.ca/sociology-instructo...-wage-gap/

Digging more into it. Her family emigrated to Canada, which is an entirely different kettle of fish...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o...e14711281/

"As Canadians, we need foreign talent to sustain the country’s demographic and economic growth, and we have just the labour market to attract it. Canadians need immigration just as much as immigrants need a destination such as Canada. Immigration, as it turns out, is most likely the key to Canada’s prosperity."

Change "Canada"/"Canadian" to "US"/"American"... which is what I've been advocating for the US for years.

(06-26-2017 07:37 AM)Taem Wrote:  Well tbh, I felt the video was a fresh take on retooled concepts, and from someone who clearly felt the need to correct the serous issues befalling blacks due undoubtedly to her identifying as such. You are correct that this is mostly about class, but she makes some great points about affording more grant money to black in college having no meaningful impact due to their retention rate... so clearly money is also not the issue as you make it seem. I think there is more truth to her words than is being acknowledged here.
...
She's only advocating teaching safe sex, respect for each other, and hard work. What's so wrong with this?
Well, as Archon_Wing indicated, people don't just get up one day and say "F school, F work, F family structure, F the rules, I'm going to be ignorant, commit a bunch of crimes, sell and/or use a bunch of drugs, and get a bunch of babies made I can't afford." It is a bunch of empty platitudes to just say, "stay away from crime, stay in school, just say no, use a condom... etc." People make bad decisions, THEN end up having their lives spiral out of control. I doubt it is ever intentional. "Hey, I'm going to set myself up for a fall".

What you need to do is look at specific examples... http://www.sentencingproject.org/stories/kemba-smith/

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06-30-2017, 08:53 PM (This post was last modified: 06-30-2017 09:21 PM by FireIceTalon.)
Post: #14
RE: An Interesting Take on BLM
After some thought, and not sure why I didn't post this before...What really shows that Taem is a racist is he goes out of his way to make a thread bitching about BLM, but not one ounce of outrage for the murder of Jordan Edwards. Or the other countless black men & women murdered in the street almost daily by this racist, fascist, terrorist, Gestapo organization that calls itself "the police". Just shows where his white supremacist priorities lie (in both senses of the word).

But pretty soon, white supremacists will have much more to fucking worry about than BLM protests. Perhaps its time for another April 29th, 1992 - but on a much bigger scale, where WHITE communities are affected if not the outright target?

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06-30-2017, 11:15 PM
Post: #15
RE: An Interesting Take on BLM
(06-30-2017 08:53 PM)FireIceTalon Wrote:  After some thought, and not sure why I didn't post this before...What really shows that Taem is a racist is he goes out of his way to make a thread bitching about BLM, but not one ounce of outrage for the murder of Jordan Edwards. Or the other countless black men & women murdered in the street almost daily by this racist, fascist, terrorist, Gestapo organization that calls itself "the police". Just shows where his white supremacist priorities lie (in both senses of the word).

But pretty soon, white supremacists will have much more to fucking worry about than BLM protests. Perhaps its time for another April 29th, 1992 - but on a much bigger scale, where WHITE communities are affected if not the outright target?
"63 people were killed during the riots, 2,383 people were injured"

Yeah, great idea... says the guy from a state with 2,383 population.

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06-30-2017, 11:30 PM (This post was last modified: 07-01-2017 12:16 AM by FireIceTalon.)
Post: #16
RE: An Interesting Take on BLM
(06-30-2017 11:15 PM)kandrathe Wrote:  
(06-30-2017 08:53 PM)FireIceTalon Wrote:  After some thought, and not sure why I didn't post this before...What really shows that Taem is a racist is he goes out of his way to make a thread bitching about BLM, but not one ounce of outrage for the murder of Jordan Edwards. Or the other countless black men & women murdered in the street almost daily by this racist, fascist, terrorist, Gestapo organization that calls itself "the police". Just shows where his white supremacist priorities lie (in both senses of the word).

But pretty soon, white supremacists will have much more to fucking worry about than BLM protests. Perhaps its time for another April 29th, 1992 - but on a much bigger scale, where WHITE communities are affected if not the outright target?
"63 people were killed during the riots, 2,383 people were injured"

Yeah, great idea... says the guy from a state with 2,383 population.

Actually, Idaho has over 1.6 million residents. Not sure what the states population has to do with the number of people killed or injured in the 1992 Los Angeles riots though. Nor am I from Idaho, I am from the state where those riots occurred. Only reason I live in this white supremacist, shit hole of a red-state is cause I have family here.

But more importantly, you, like Taem, show your white supremacy by completely ignoring the fact the police have killed, beatin, harassed, and imprisoned far more black people than the amount injured in said riot. In 2016 alone, over 250 black people were murdered by pigs. Yet, the riot is the bigger evil for you. Typical viewpoint of a white nationalist apologist - always looking at things from the wrong angle. Or maybe you are just another misguided liberal, though the difference these days between liberals and white supremacists is a pretty fine line. Not to mention, capitalism kills, oh roughly, about 25,000 children per day by starvation or malnutrition. But hey, they are just collateral, right? A necessary evil to have a genuinely free market system, yes?

And then you have the audacity to call me out for promoting violence, when YOU TURN THE OTHER CHEEK AT THIS VERY SYSTEM that can ONLY be upheld my means of violence, and that 25,000 children starving per day in itself is NOT violence? Are you fucking kidding me? The hypocrisy is astounding.

Quite frankly, you guys disgust me.


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"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (addressing the bourgeois)
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07-01-2017, 12:12 AM (This post was last modified: 07-01-2017 12:14 AM by kandrathe.)
Post: #17
RE: An Interesting Take on BLM
(06-30-2017 08:53 PM)FireIceTalon Wrote:  Quite frankly, you guys disgust me.
As do your assumptions, of me. How would you know if I stand for BLM?

You seem to be the only one advocating violence and supremacy here. Your own.

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07-01-2017, 12:19 AM (This post was last modified: 07-01-2017 01:25 AM by FireIceTalon.)
Post: #18
RE: An Interesting Take on BLM
Quit trying to dodge the issue. Can you answer the motherfucking question, or can you not? Your position on BLM is not relevant to what I asked you, or rather observed. That isn't my concern. What I AM concerned with is your hypocrisy - you condemning one act of violence but turning a blind eye at another (a much bigger one, at that).

Why are the 1992 riots a bigger issue for you than the systematic murdering of black people by the police, every single day? Could it be because you are an apologist for white supremacy? If not, what is your excuse? I want to know.

And no, it is people like you and Taem who advocate for violence and supremacy by making untenable apologies for the current system. Me advocating for the violent overthrow of this system is NOT the same as you advocating for its continued existence, not by a long shot. This system is violent by design and necessity, and has more blood on its hands than anything else in human history. Me calling for its violent overthrow is simply the realization that the ruling class will never, ever give up its power willingly (and why would they, they have a pretty sweet deal - at everyone elses expense) and therefore it must be FORCED to do so. My supremacy? Oh really? What supremacy would that be? Because last I checked, it was you and Taem that were decrying one kind of violence but turning your blind eye at another (because the elimination of that violence which you ignore would mean the end of white supremacy and privilege). Way I see it is, overthrowing the present order of things is not an act of violence, but rather of SELF-DEFENSE of and by the oppressed, and for the sake of the planet and its natural environment.

When you oppress people for long enough, they are eventually going to rise up and FUCK YOUR SHIT UP. And rightfully so. When the capitalists and their state & police cronies commit unspeakable acts of violence against the poor - be it killing them, beating them, harassing and profiling them, imprisoning them, unemploying/underpaying them, taking away or blocking their access to healthcare and education, EVERY DAY, it's just business, right? Of course, when the poor fight back, only then is it "violence".

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"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (addressing the bourgeois)
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07-01-2017, 02:43 AM
Post: #19
RE: An Interesting Take on BLM
(07-01-2017 12:19 AM)FireIceTalon Wrote:  Quit trying to dodge the issue. Can you answer the motherfucking question, or can you not?
Oh. Your false dichotomy again? If someone isn't a radical anarchist revolutionary calling for race riots, they must be a white supremacist grand dragon of the KKK.

"A false dichotomy is an informal fallacy consisting of a supposed dichotomy which fails one or both of the conditions: it is not jointly exhaustive and/or not mutually exclusive. In its most common form, two entities are presented as if they are exhaustive, when in fact other alternatives are possible."

I am against both riots and executions by police. Yes, I believe there is an alternative to burning the mother down, or cowering from the gestapo tactics of some of our police force.

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07-01-2017, 03:48 AM (This post was last modified: 07-01-2017 04:38 AM by FireIceTalon.)
Post: #20
RE: An Interesting Take on BLM
It's not a false dichotomy, it's simply a matter of there being no room or time for "middle ground" anymore. You may not be a white supremacist, in the sense that one typically is in believing whites should have their own nation or completely deny that there is a race problem to begin with. But turning a blind eye is almost as bad, and is part of the problem. I'm not a big fan of Howard Zinn, who was a Chomskyist liberal at best. But he was right when he said "you cannot be neutral on a moving train". You were much quicker to condemn the riots than you were systemic police killings of minorities. Maybe that wasn't your intention, but when I see people up in arms about violent reactions to oppression before they are about the oppression itself, its always a red flag to me (and not the kind of red flag I like).


I felt a similar way in how Bolty reacted to my Portland thread by locking it and giving me a temp ban (meanwhile, Ashock is allowed to roam freely with his spam and trolls threads spreading his bigotry around), where he appeared to be much more concerned about my reaction rather than the terrorist who killed two people that came to the defense of two black women that were being harassed by him. Him locking the thread and giving me a temp ban is just proof he is sympathetic towards white nationalist ideology, as I see it. He should have been more concerned and upset about the situation in Portland, not my reaction to it.

It is a historical reality that the ruling classes of any society have never willingly given up their power. They have always been forced to give it up, sometimes it went relatively smooth with only minor skirmishes of violence, other times it was a blood bath (mostly from the ruling classes, though). It is just a fact of circumstance that overthrowing an oppressive and violent system usually requires, to some degree, violence itself. Just how it is. But again, I look at those who are being oppressed as fighting back in self-defense, not violence. Oppressing or exploiting people in the FIRST place, is violent and such a system can ONLY be maintained through a monopoly of violence and coercion.

In truth, I don't condone the 1992 Los Angeles riots as a method for change, just because they are not fundamental enough to accomplish it. It was mostly a reaction against a specific outcome of a particular case and the racial tensions that were building up beforehand. It wasn't a cohesive and genuine proletarian movement against the capitalist system, involving mass strikes, people taking control of their workplaces, and educating others about capitalism and socialism - not even close. I do understand the reaction of their community though, given the circumstances.

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"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (addressing the bourgeois)
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