Andrea Yates verdict - huh?

[kandrathe]

Well, we have the of the people, though just barely. For the people may have been in place at some point. By the people is most certainly extinct, if it ever existed in the first place. Gotta love that electoral college.

Although sometimes I look at Dubya and think he is furthering our governmental cause. We need to hit upon either a tyrant or anarchy (and he's somehow flirting with both) to realize what we had (and lost). No, the US isn't that bad compared to a good chunk of the rest of the world, but our system of government is hardly ideal with all of the lobbying, the incumbency rate, and whatnot. I guess it has to be actively screwing up peoples' lives for them to want to do something about it, and we're not quite that far yet. Most of us aren't.

--me, attempting to kill the death penalty

So why are you not screaming to your Senators and District Representatives about the poor state of things in your area?

[Occhidiangela]

--me, attempting to kill the death penalty

That is a tasty turn of phrase. :)

As to the spoils system, it is still alive and well, Garfield died for naught. Consider our energy secretary . . . but never mind, they all go into office so they can write a book. :whistling:

Occhi

[eppie]

I guess it has to be actively screwing up peoples' lives for them to want to do something about it, and we're not quite that far yet. Most of us aren't.

--me, attempting to kill the death penalty

Well they are actively screwing up lives of people in other countries, but everybody is too scared to say something about it.

[Occhidiangela]

Well they are actively screwing up lives of people in other countries, but everybody is too scared to say something about it.

As my Spanish Teacher used to say

"Es mierda contumaz, amigo"

Occhi

[Any1]

As my Spanish Teacher used to say

"Es mierda contumaz, amigo"

Occhi

la mierda contumaz sea quizá verdad!

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

Bull crap.

"Among the many misdeeds of the British Empire in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest." Ghandi.

Even he understood that polite non violent protest and negotation could fail, and from there on, there was only revolution. Bloodshed. But only as a last resort. He understood the need for arms, guns, weaponry to empower the masses. He didn't like them, but he understood the need to have them, and if need be, use them. Is that a schism or reason? Ghandi was also a firm believer that an armed society is a polite society.

And reread your own quote about pacifism... That word, disarmer. To disarm. To disable. To put down and remove a threat.

That's completely out of context, and you know it. The disarming is the adjective to the noun, which would be yourself, not another.

As for your Ghandi quote, it is again out of context. Ghandi never advocated violence under ANY situation, even at the cost of one's own life:

I cannot teach you violence, as I do not myself believe in it. I can only teach you not to bow your heads before any one even at the cost of your life.
-Mahatma Gandhi

That speaks to retaining dignity; it does not speak to retaliation.

I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent.
-Mahatma Gandhi

Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary.
-Mahatma Gandhi

As for the Dalai Lama, he did indeed speak thusly:

If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." -- The Dalai Lama

That's hardly a parallel to your own spoutings, Doc... which seem to change daily in their nature.

[gekko]

That word, disarmer. To disarm. To disable. To put down and remove a threat.

Even the Dalai Lama, a DEVOUT pacifist says it is entirely reasonable to kill somebody in defense of your own life, provided that they are trying to kill you.

Could you point out where in this thread you suggested disarming, disabling or removing a threat?

You've suggested nothing less than punishment and violence because you feel she deserves it. Now, if you want to defend that position, that's fine. But I for one don't buy you quoting Ghandi and the Dalai Lama to defend your position being that of a pacifist. Pacifism does not mean peace until you decide they deserve punishment.

gekko

[kandrathe]

Could you point out where in this thread you suggested disarming, disabling or removing a threat?

You've suggested nothing less than punishment and violence because you feel she deserves it. Now, if you want to defend that position, that's fine. But I for one don't buy you quoting Ghandi and the Dalai Lama to defend your position being that of a pacifist. Pacifism does not mean peace until you decide they deserve punishment.

gekko

WWGD? Andrea Yates? What would Ghandi do?

Psychosis is very common. Every year in Britain over 100,000 people are treated for psychosis – that’s the combined population of Chesterfield & Dronfield. Approximately 3 people in every hundred experience a psychotic episode. It is more common than diabetes.

Lots of famous people have had these experiences at some time in their life: e.g Paul Merton, Joan of Arc, Madonna, Winston Churchill, <span style="color:#FF0000">Ghandi and Michael Barrymore to name but a few.

A large number of people will experience psychosis symptoms without ever being diagnosed as psychotic. It is estimated that at any one time 5% of the population hear voices that others cannot. 70% of the population are deemed to hold beliefs that could be classified as delusional e.g belief in alien abduction.

People’s ability to cope with these symptoms at any given time often determines whether they require treatment. Many people diagnosed with a psychotic reaction have recently undergone significant life events e.g moving house, starting college or work, relationship breakdown, bereavement, and/or been exposed to a high level of stress.

Understanding what causes psychosis can help identify people who may be more at risk from experiencing it. With the right help most sufferers will recover to lead fulfilling healthy lives.http://www.strangedays.org.uk/index.htm

[Malakar]

Not from the sites I've looked at. It seems to be steady across all generations. The cause of PPD and PPP is hormonal imbalances after birth. What happens is one of the hormones, I can't remember the name, drops to non-pregnancy levels within hours after birth. It is this hormonal drop that can lead to PPD and PPP as the hormonal drop off affects each woman differently (some show no issues, others get PPD, the rare tragic few end up with PPP). So, if it was something that was caused by familial genetics, it would have dropped off considerably over time as those that had these traits were removed from the gene pool, but it hasn't.

PPD and even suicidal PPP do not interrupt transmission of genetics, so we are left with infanticide. The figures were what, 4% of 0.1-0.2%? So that results in a 0.006% rate, which could reasonably be a rough figure on mutation rate, no?

6) Get a large wood chipper, and feed Andrea Yates into it.

Occhi, you disappoint me. Here I thought you were a civilized man that would be concerned with energy conservation. We should obviously eat her.:)

[Occhidiangela]

Occhi, you disappoint me. Here I thought you were a civilized man that would be concerned with energy conservation. We should obviously eat her.:)

Good point. With mint sauce! :whistling:

Occhi

[Merlinios]

So why are you not screaming to your Senators and District Representatives about the poor state of things in your area?

(Even if I thought they would do something,) Because it's much easier to scream to you guys. I'll get a response, and entire minutes of entertainment. All I get writing to the Senators is mounting frustration and a feeling of helplessness.

But most of all, because it NEEDS to get bad to change. Crushing failure is the best teacher. If we fix it before it gets too bad, no one will remember, and the situation will rapidly degenerate back. But if you look at, for example, pre-WWII Japan...

--me

[kandrathe]

...
But if you look at, for example, pre-WWII Japan...

--me

But, what if I'm not willing to sacrifice a couple of cities to nuclear destruction? I don't believe failure is the best teacher.

More to the point...
"...
Capitalism is not too strong; democracy is too weak. We have not grown too hubristic as producers and consumers; we have grown too timid as citizens, acquiescing to deregulation and privatization (airlines, accounting firms, banks, media conglomerates, you name it) and a growing tyranny of money over politics.
..." -- Benjamin R. Barber
Published on the New York Times Op Ed Page, July 29, 2002

[Occhidiangela]

"...
Capitalism is not too strong; democracy is too weak. We have not grown too hubristic as producers and consumers; we have grown too timid as citizens, acquiescing to deregulation and privatization (airlines, accounting firms, banks, media conglomerates, you name it) and a growing tyranny of money over politics.
..." -- Benjamin R. Barber
Published on the New York Times Op Ed Page, July 29, 2002

I wish Ben would have mentioned public utilities. What does privatizing accounting firms have to do with any of this?

Occhi

[kandrathe]

I wish Ben would have mentioned public utilities. What does privatizing accounting firms have to do with any of this?

Occhi

You have to go back the Merlinios' original comment about Tyranny and Anarchy. here My point indirectly was that it has nothing to do with what he said it does, but with the timidity, or apathy of the people to make the government "for the people", rather than what has become which is heavily influenced by the money. I'm actually "for" the government deregulating business where possible, but I think Barber is spot on in terms of where to place the blame for why things are messed up. We get the Clinton's and the Bush's because we tolerate them. Just like Springer, Elimidate and Survivor... Enough people vote/watch for that crap so we all get to live with it.

Yeah, I turn the channel, but still another wasted channel.

[--Pete]

Hi,

We get the Clinton's and the Bush's because we tolerate them. Just like Springer, Elimidate and Survivor... Enough people vote/watch for that crap so we all get to live with it.

There is a big difference, though. Ignorant idiots watching bad television, and the television industry that panders to them, has no impact on me. There's enough good television, movies, books, games, etc. that I can ignore the crap preferred by the room temperature IQs.

But when the officials elected by those same ignorant idiots pass laws and establish policies, then I cannot avoid them. I have to carry my passport on my trips to Canada. And the nonsense at the border causes me to reduce the number of those trips, and thus to eat excellent Greek food less often. The two plus hours of getting through security at the Airport means that flying from Seattle to Vancouver is no longer a viable option. Driving is cheaper and faster. And those are the pin pricks. The cost of supporting a useless war propagated by lies and engendered to make some rich people richer is an insult to the nation. And the encroachment on the civil liberties of the population at large in order to make them behave more in line with the principles of the most superstitious and ignorant of our population is nothing more than defecation on the principles this country was founded on.

So, while both our popular entertainment and our government institutions are the lowest form of crap, only the government can force us to wallow in it.

--Pete

[Chaerophon]

Hi,
There is a big difference, though. Ignorant idiots watching bad television, and the television industry that panders to them, has no impact on me. There's enough good television, movies, books, games, etc. that I can ignore the crap preferred by the room temperature IQs.

But when the officials elected by those same ignorant idiots pass laws and establish policies, then I cannot avoid them. I have to carry my passport on my trips to Canada. And the nonsense at the border causes me to reduce the number of those trips, and thus to eat excellent Greek food less often. The two plus hours of getting through security at the Airport means that flying from Seattle to Vancouver is no longer a viable option. Driving is cheaper and faster. And those are the pin pricks. The cost of supporting a useless war propagated by lies and engendered to make some rich people richer is an insult to the nation. And the encroachment on the civil liberties of the population at large in order to make them behave more in line with the principles of the most superstitious and ignorant of our population is nothing more than defecation on the principles this country was founded on.

So, while both our popular entertainment and our government institutions are the lowest form of crap, only the government can force us to wallow in it.

--Pete

Best.

Post.

Ever.

B)

[kandrathe]

Hi,
There is a big difference, though. Ignorant idiots watching bad television, and the television industry that panders to them, has no impact on me. There's enough good television, movies, books, games, etc. that I can ignore the crap preferred by the room temperature IQs.

But when the officials elected by those same ignorant idiots pass laws and establish policies, then I cannot avoid them. I have to carry my passport on my trips to Canada. And the nonsense at the border causes me to reduce the number of those trips, and thus to eat excellent Greek food less often. The two plus hours of getting through security at the Airport means that flying from Seattle to Vancouver is no longer a viable option. Driving is cheaper and faster. And those are the pin pricks. The cost of supporting a useless war propagated by lies and engendered to make some rich people richer is an insult to the nation. And the encroachment on the civil liberties of the population at large in order to make them behave more in line with the principles of the most superstitious and ignorant of our population is nothing more than defecation on the principles this country was founded on.

So, while both our popular entertainment and our government institutions are the lowest form of crap, only the government can force us to wallow in it.

--Pete

I hear you. My commentary was on the similiarity of process rather than the significance of the burden. I would offer then that perhaps our popular entertainment and our government institutions are the lowest form of crap, because of the preferences of room temperature IQ's and those who through apathy tolerate the status quo. In the context of "government by the people, for the people" we are getting what we collectively deserve, and from what I can deduce it is due to a lack of people demanding a better democracy resisting those constant forces of both mediocrity and capitalism.



I bet the "God Warrior" votes. Also, to your first point that "Springer TV" does not touch you, don't you think that by rooting through the garbage of our society and presenting it on TV it changes people perceptions of normal? I am very embarassed for America by some of the human refuse that is unearthed here and paraded on TV. The pendulum has swung pretty far from the unrealistic "Leave it to Beaver" world, but at least media like that presented a role model that was uplifting and positive.