The Dilemma!

[Bob the Beholder]

So. I am unhappy with the state of pvp.

I do not like that people fight only for points. PvP should be about the enjoyment of PvP. I do not like that there are no penalties for failing in PvP. If a balanced way of penalizing 'getting pwned' were to come about, the honor system would stop rewarding the persistent, and start rewarding the skilled. (It would have to be some scary kind of balance, though. After all, even the best lose sometimes, and it's quite likely to die repeatedly to overwhelming odds.)

So, with the battlegrounds and their numerous bonuses to honor points, and the honor system's 'grinding honor for benefit,' pvp now mostly takes place in the battlegrounds. Earlier pvp hotspots have been abandoned. The likelihood of finding an enemy player of your own level and up for a fight has been significantly diminished. Solo pvp is all but non-existent outside of duels, and a bit of luck. (Note that this may just be the case on MY PvP server.)

With that in mind, it is possible that, for one, my guild on Gorefiend could experience some unpleasant upheaval which I likely do not want to stick around for. And for another, some friends of mine who want nothing to do with PvP servers (or the horde for some reason) may be getting the game soon.

So, I may find the cause to up and move servers. Likely PvE. (I have proposed Stormrage, for great justice. It may be as many as nine of us though, so I doubt there will be direct affilliation with the Lurkers, seeing as I am the only one who regularly posts here.)

To all of you who have played both PvP and PvE: Is it a big thing to miss? Will the controlled fighting of the PvE servers offer the same rewarding experience as the uncontrolled in the PvP servers?

Now, I'm not talking about ganking. (Though I've obviously gotten over getting ganked regularly.) I'm talking the REAL stuff. Riding out into PvP hotspots to hunt down gankers. The odd sheep and /happy combo to mess with an enemy's head. Getting jumped by someone nine levels over you and through overwhelming luck and skill sending him off in fear. Making the point to an enemy ganker that his specific brand of asshattery will. not. be. tolerated, to the point that he turns and runs at first sight of you. Chain-killing the guy who jumped you at low mana, the guy who appeared to help him, AND the random guy who thought it would be helpful to sheep you in mid-battle only to run off. The fight that's so close that two casters resort to staff-whacking eachother until that little bit of mana regens for the killing blow.

It's hard to imagine that duels and battlegrounds fit the bill, really. :( And the quality of enemies to fight will likely be significantly lower, where people can go straight to 60 without bothering to fight a single other player. And it is quite likely that the population of people who consider PvP a crime to match eating live kittens will be a leeeetle bit higher.

I... really don't want to level a character to 50 or so, just to find that the whole basis the server is built around will only feed half of my addiction.

[Bolty]

It sounds like PvE servers will not be your cup of tea. The things that you enjoy (the pressure of watching your back constantly, danger lurking around every corner, etc) just don't exist on PvE servers. PvP action on PvE servers consists of:

1) Battlegrounds
2) Massive one-sided raids on towns (Crossroads nightly, usually) with little defense from the completely outmanned Horde side because most PvE servers are heavily Alliance-populated
3) 1 on 1 duels

You are also correct that the quality of players to fight against goes down as well, since they get so little practice with PvP. Sure, there are exceptions to the rule, but someone who has played on a PvP server for months will be able to roll over 90% of the players on a PvE server without barely exerting an effort (this I know from my time on a PvP server in beta compared to PvP on Stormrage that I've seen).

However, actual world fights are very rare. You could stand in a huge crowd of players, go /pvp, and only a few will ever attack you. Once they do, they tend to gang up on you and nobody bothers to help. It's a very different environment.

So, if Battlegrounds does not satisfy your PvP urges, you will not enjoy PvE servers. The random encounter seems to be what you enjoy, and it just doesn't happen there. The main reason to roll PvE is to get away from asshats, but you pay a penalty for it for sure.

-Bolty

[vor_lord]

Will the controlled fighting of the PvE servers offer the same rewarding experience as the uncontrolled in the PvP servers? 
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Nope. I've never really been involved in any PvP to speak of, but this past weekend was involved in several 2v2 and 3v2 fights while questing in Ashenvale. Even level fights, high levels nearby so you had to keep your head down while flagged. I had so much fun I really wish I was playing on a PvP server (well, I am on Tich but haven't got very far). But this kind of situation is rare in PvE.

The best way to get some action is to just run around flagged. The problem is it's unlikely people will fight you unless you have no chance to win (either level or number).

On PvE, Battlegrounds has removed even what little open PvP there was (at least on Terenas). Even the zergfests at XR or TM are not nearly as common.

[Bob the Beholder]

Good points, and not particularly the answer I would've liked, but, eh. As it is now, I haven't been getting much decent PvP anyway. I can quest/grind in contested areas for hours these days without ever being bothered. :( And, until recently when there stopped being higher level players, the only people who would bother approaching me were at least eight levels higher, and only stopping because I was easy honor. >< (Although I have made gankers of those types very unhappy before--but it's not exactly an everyday thing.) And 95 percent of the examples I gave were from before battlegrounds, and none of those have been repeated since.

As it is now, I suppose, I'll try to win my friends over to the PvP servers, or just console myself in that I already have a high level PvP character. :(


As to that, how's the wait time for the battlegrounds on Stormrage? On the horde side of Gorefiend, I've literally hit the portal, walked away, and been let in before I've left sight of the entrance.

[oldmandennis]

Well, I guess it's just a matter of perspective.

I play on a PvP server, and was very unhappy when honor came out before battle grounds. I was just turning 48 at the time, and all of the sudden it was impossible to do any outside questing. People wouldn't just kill you once, they would camp you and kill you several times. After they killed you 3-4 times they might wander away, and you could go about your business for a few minutes, then the next person would want to play. The thing is, the outside world was not designed with any type of stratagy in mind. You couldn't defeat your enemies such that they couldn't just be back within minutes.

I found myself logging on at 5 in the morning just to avoid the gankage.

Battle grounds have fixed most of that in my experience. You still get ganked, you still get interrupeted (and don't get me wrong, I jump people too sometimes, especially Goonies :P), but the times when people farm you for points and camp you into the ground are much much fewer. People do sometimes /wave if you'd both rather go about your business then engage in a protracted 20 min dual.

On my server atleast, if you are looking for trouble, try cruzing anyplace known for Rich Thorium. Or Gazetgan.

[Brista]

As it is now, I suppose, I'll try to win my friends over to the PvP servers, or just console myself in that I already have a high level PvP character.  :( 

I've seen a lot of posts from very unhappy players who have followed friends on to the pvp servers when they have no interest in pvping

I'd suggest you

1) talk to them, explain ganking and explain both the buzz and the persistent corpse camping and graveyard camping. Basically, if you see it as a challenge to rise to pvp servers are more fun, but if you see it as distressing interference from griefers then pvp servers are much worse than pve servers. Find out if they're prepared to be predators

2) if they clearly aren't going to be pvpers then they need to play on pve servers regardless of what suits you. Either make a pve alt and play with them at their pace while playing your pvp main when your presumably less addicted friends are offline or let them go their seperate ways but assure them you'll be glad to see them on your server if ever they decide to play pvp WoW

Depends partly what their background is. To the Quake/Halflife crowd it seems to me that they see PvE WoW as a slightly more elaborate version of picking up ammo clips, medpacks and other power-ups before you go fragging. To the Morrowind/Everquest crowd pvp in WoW can seem like legitimised griefing

Good luck, hope it works out well