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...you contemplate building a $1,000 computer for the sole purpose of playing ROMs on your TV.
Man, do I need help. Sadly enough, I'm actually considering saving up to do this (once I get my wholesale distributor - which will come AFTER I start up my business {God help me, business in Mass. is a bitch}). A SFF barebones from AOpen, Socket 479 (that's Pentium M, for those of you not in the know), a little passively-cooled GeForce 5200 with Composite Video & S-Video out (for legacy and new TVs alike), and a wireless rig of keyboard, optical mouse, and rumblepad that looks like a wireless PS2 controller (all by Logitech). Built-in sound, networking, etc. - would make use of the onboard video, except it has no video-out for TVs. :( 160GB 7200RPM HD (couldn't find any 10k RPM drives that still use IDE interface, for added speed) will load more ROMs than I could download in a month, complete with a DVD-burner (can't go wrong for $50!) so I can play Saturn and Playstation games (if I have the emulators), or watch movies, too. :)
All in all, I am thoroughly excited about the idea. I mean, really, imagine a "console" PC little larger than a GameCube that has ALL your old favorites from the glory days of video gaming, available in high-quality or standard video, no need to switch systems, cartridges, discs, etc., 100% portable and very power- and noise-efficient. I'd call the it "PCCube Console". I know, the name needs work. :P Hell, I could market these things, even though they'd be a niche market, and of course the ROMs bit would probably land me in court. :P But seriously, is that not a cool idea or what?
If I can get all the parts wholesale, I could probably build one for half the price it'd cost me to get the parts retail. Maybe even less! I'm so thrilled with the idea... If only I had the money.
I just had to share my little delusions. Stick around for next time, when I discuss my ideas for making plexiglass cases. :)
And, hey, at least I'm not as fanatical as this guy. ;)
Roland *The Gunslinger*
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06-19-2005, 09:05 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-19-2005, 09:06 PM by Urza-DSF.)
Roland,Jun 19 2005, 02:45 PM Wrote:...you contemplate building a $1,000 computer for the sole purpose of playing ROMs on your TV.
Man, do I need help. Sadly enough, I'm actually considering saving up to do this (once I get my wholesale distributor - which will come AFTER I start up my business {God help me, business in Mass. is a bitch}). A SFF barebones from AOpen, Socket 479 (that's Pentium M, for those of you not in the know), a little passively-cooled GeForce 5200 with Composite Video & S-Video out (for legacy and new TVs alike), and a wireless rig of keyboard, optical mouse, and rumblepad that looks like a wireless PS2 controller (all by Logitech). Built-in sound, networking, etc. - would make use of the onboard video, except it has no video-out for TVs. :( 160GB 7200RPM HD (couldn't find any 10k RPM drives that still use IDE interface, for added speed) will load more ROMs than I could download in a month, complete with a DVD-burner (can't go wrong for $50!) so I can play Saturn and Playstation games (if I have the emulators), or watch movies, too. :)
All in all, I am thoroughly excited about the idea. I mean, really, imagine a "console" PC little larger than a GameCube that has ALL your old favorites from the glory days of video gaming, available in high-quality or standard video, no need to switch systems, cartridges, discs, etc., 100% portable and very power- and noise-efficient. I'd call the it "PCCube Console". I know, the name needs work. :P Hell, I could market these things, even though they'd be a niche market, and of course the ROMs bit would probably land me in court. :P But seriously, is that not a cool idea or what?
If I can get all the parts wholesale, I could probably build one for half the price it'd cost me to get the parts retail. Maybe even less! I'm so thrilled with the idea... If only I had the money.
I just had to share my little delusions. Stick around for next time, when I discuss my ideas for making plexiglass cases. :)
And, hey, at least I'm not as fanatical as this guy. ;)
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Why bother building a new computer for the job when you can get an exsisting console outfitted for the job? My X-Box currently has a 1 gig harddrive with a multi-use program that, among its features, holds and emulates ROMs from NES, SNES, Genesis, Master System, Turbografix, Colecovision, Atari 2600, etc... This is in addition to being able to create XBox Disc Images and DvD media to the machine. Only cost was the X-Box itself (Which had to be an older version, pre 2001 I believe) and $200.00 on top of that.
Just a thought if you already own an X-Box and could find someone like my brother's friend to do it for you.
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Urza-DSF,Jun 19 2005, 05: Wrote:Why bother building a new computer for the job when you can get an exsisting console outfitted for the job? My X-Box currently has a 1 gig harddrive with a multi-use program that, among its features, holds and emulates ROMs from NES, SNES, Genesis, Master System, Turbografix, Colecovision, Atari 2600, etc... This is in addition to being able to create XBox Disc Images and DvD media to the machine. Only cost was the X-Box itself (Which had to be an older version, pre 2001 I believe) and $200.00 on top of that.
Just a thought if you already own an X-Box and could find someone like my brother's friend to do it for you.
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I can think of one reason right off the bat. With a modded Xbox, you are stuck using an Xbox controller. With a PC you can pick and choose what controller type you want to use depending on what game you are emulating. Playing SNES games with an Xbox controller just seems wrong to me.
Also, there is a lot of self-satisfaction in building this sort of thing to suit your own needs instead of paying someone else to do it for you. Roland is a hardware geek and I'm sure he'd never think of putting something like this together as a hassle.
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I understand the urge Roland, and it would be really cool to have something entirely different. But I have a question, why a 160gig HD? I thought ROMs were a few megs?
Isn't the target of both PS3 and the XBox360 to create in some form a multimedia center (wireless, large HD, interconnectivity w/ computers)? The idea seems great, but something with similar (or arguably better specs) is due to come out before the end of this year, and it seems it will be half the cost of your system.
Why not wait a few months and have a XBox360 with all the newest games, old Xbox games, ROMS, movies and the like? With the money you save you could buy a PS3 or even a Revolution (which is supposed to support all the old NES games).
Quote:Also, there is a lot of self-satisfaction in building this sort of thing to suit your own needs instead of paying someone else to do it for you. Roland is a hardware geek and I'm sure he'd never think of putting something like this together as a hassle.
From my point of view its not an issue of hassle, but an issue of wasted money! Why spend 1000$ on something that could be done for less? The advantage of a logitech (or other computer) controler over an xbox controller doesnt appear to be worth the money, but then again its not my hard earned money on the line. Do what your heart desires Roland, and I wish you luck with it :).
Cheers,
Munk
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*Searches for gasoline to pour onto the fire*
The GeforceFX 5200... Ditch it. Seriously. Buy a different card, even a 5500. The 5200 is a terrible gaming card.
I regret buying my 5200, even though it was an "emergency purchase" (i.e. I needed an AGP card for my motherboard, cheap, and in one day). As a hold-out until I can buy a better card, it's fine, but otherwise I have to work hard at getting decent a FPS with most games.
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Munkay,Jun 19 2005, 07:40 PM Wrote:Why not wait a few months and have a XBox360 with all the newest games, old Xbox games, ROMS, movies and the like? With the money you save you could buy a PS3 or even a Revolution (which is supposed to support all the old NES games).[right][snapback]81051[/snapback][/right]
Last I heard PS3 would have backward compatability but the XBox360 wouldn't. It was still up in the air though. Last rumor was XBox games would be re-released in XBox360 format.
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I'd say if you want a low cost 128MB AGP card, get the Radeon 9200SE. Can find as low as $50, and is faster and has higher detail than the 5200, and a lower tendency to suffer hardware failures.
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NiteFox,Jun 20 2005, 02:20 PM Wrote:The GeforceFX 5200... Ditch it. Seriously. Buy a different card, even a 5500. The 5200 is a terrible gaming card.
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SetBuilder,Jun 20 2005, 02:45 PM Wrote:I'd say if you want a low cost 128MB AGP card, get the Radeon 9200SE. Can find as low as $50, and is faster and has higher detail than the 5200, and a lower tendency to suffer hardware failures.
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An emulation PC doesn't require a beefy video card to perform. Any crappy video card will do. All you're doing is rendering sprites to a TV, which has very low resolution.
In the crappy low-cost video card market, we are looking at two main contenders -- Nvidia's FX5200 and ATI's 9200SE. Both equally suck, but both will perfom their roles as emulation video cards very well. Anything more would be overkill.
I can understand why Roland chose a FX5200. IIRC, he's a die-hard Nvidia fan. Although a 9200SE would have also been a valid choice, I can't fault him for siding with Nvidia. Brand loyalty is a good thing.
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However, it should be mentioned that my 5200 doesn't display N64 roms very well. It might be the emulator I'm using (Project64), but I've noticed similar graphical artefacts in other games too.
The bitch of a problem with the 5200 is that it's hard to know which drivers to use. The current version being 71.84, but that causes masses of problems with many things. Most people roll back to 66.93 (or 66.94 for 9x systems) in such cases, but those drivers cause problems as well, especially if you're trying to run in 800x600 resolution.
That said, the next card I'll buy will probably be an Nvidia, just one that wouldn't cause so much grief.
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Munkay,Jun 19 2005, 10:40 PM Wrote:I understand the urge Roland, and it would be really cool to have something entirely different. But I have a question, why a 160gig HD? I thought ROMs were a few megs?
Simple. It was the only size available by Hitachi with IDE connection, aside from the 400GB one. I thought that a tad excessive, although I wouldn't think twice about putting it in either way. ;) I was trying to keep the costs reasonable while keeping the speed high. NewEgg had NO IDE 10k RPM Raptors, so I had to settle for a 7200 by Hitachi (faster seek times than any other HD maker). RAM speed is also an issue, but not nearly as much as HD speed. Most ROMs don't use much memory, save for the big ones like N64 and Playstation, etc.
I was going to just put in the smaller Raptor, but as I said above, they don't have it in IDE at NewEgg. Maybe if I get my wholesale dealer, they'll have it. Who knows? It's just a dream right now. I have bigger priorities before building a computer right now, and a fast, small laptop is among those. :)
Quote:Isn't the target of both PS3 and the XBox360 to create in some form a multimedia center (wireless, large HD, interconnectivity w/ computers)? The idea seems great, but something with similar (or arguably better specs) is due to come out before the end of this year, and it seems it will be half the cost of your system.
Why not wait a few months and have a XBox360 with all the newest games, old Xbox games, ROMS, movies and the like? With the money you save you could buy a PS3 or even a Revolution (which is supposed to support all the old NES games).
From my point of view its not an issue of hassle, but an issue of wasted money! Why spend 1000$ on something that could be done for less? The advantage of a logitech (or other computer) controler over an xbox controller doesnt appear to be worth the money, but then again its not my hard earned money on the line. Do what your heart desires Roland, and I wish you luck with it :).
Cheers,
Munk
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As has been said already: it's not a money issue, it's a geek issue. :D I'm a hardware guy (I don't program worth a damn, but I can solve lots of hw/sw issues), so building a computer for me is like restoring a vintage race car to other people, or building a dining room set. It's just like any other hobby that involves building. You take your idea, and you build it all yourself, with your own two hands. A great feeling when accomplished, and all the way through. Besides, how cool would it be to show up to my weekly Halo gaming session with a mini PC tucked under my arm, and plug it into their bigscreen projection TV to play Contra or something? ;) Would be awesome for a change of pace when we're bored with Halo (or enjoying a late-night dinner, etc.).
I don't expect most anyone to understand the passion behind the idea. It IS rather nuts, spending that much dough on such a niche item. But, hey, that's why they call it a passion: you do it because you love it. :) I call the people who sink tens of thousands of dollars into their Hondas to turn them into "rice rockets" nuts (the people who drop a couple hundred on a spoiler and fancy exhaust are another story - they're just plain stupid :P), but I can at least understand the idea behind their passion, if not their ultimate goal. Personally, if I wanted a race car like that, I'd start with a genuine one and work my way up. ;)
Like I said, it's just a crazy hobbyist's idea. A great project for a rainy day, and for when I get a bit more financially settled. :) If I end up creating one, I'll take some pics of it in action and drop some links here. :) Don't expect anything for awhile though! ;)
Roland *The Gunslinger*
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NiteFox,Jun 20 2005, 01:20 PM Wrote:*Searches for gasoline to pour onto the fire*
The GeforceFX 5200... Ditch it. Seriously. Buy a different card, even a 5500. The 5200 is a terrible gaming card.
I regret buying my 5200, even though it was an "emergency purchase" (i.e. I needed an AGP card for my motherboard, cheap, and in one day). As a hold-out until I can buy a better card, it's fine, but otherwise I have to work hard at getting decent a FPS with most games.
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Oh, believe me, I know exactly how TERRIBLE the 5200 is. Look up some of the threads on it, and you'll see me ranting about it for pages. :P But for a gaming box that needs minimal video processing power, it will do just fine. Besides, all the big-league cards don't support composite video out! It's a dying standard anyway.
Roland *The Gunslinger*
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NiteFox,Jun 21 2005, 12:48 PM Wrote:However, it should be mentioned that my 5200 doesn't display N64 roms very well. It might be the emulator I'm using (Project64), but I've noticed similar graphical artefacts in other games too.
The bitch of a problem with the 5200 is that it's hard to know which drivers to use. The current version being 71.84, but that causes masses of problems with many things. Most people roll back to 66.93 (or 66.94 for 9x systems) in such cases, but those drivers cause problems as well, especially if you're trying to run in 800x600 resolution.
That said, the next card I'll buy will probably be an Nvidia, just one that wouldn't cause so much grief.
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Interesting. I suppose I could go with an ATi instead. Really, anything with Composite and S-Video out is all I'd need. Brand matters only as much as how well it's gonna last me. Now, composite + s-video + dvi would be superb, but I haven't found one yet. It seems to be either composite + dvi, or composite + s-video. Ah well, it's a niche item anyway, and I could always buy one of each and swap as needed. ;)
Roland *The Gunslinger*
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Roland,Jun 21 2005, 05:37 PM Wrote:Simple. It was the only size available by Hitachi with IDE connection, aside from the 400GB one. I thought that a tad excessive, although I wouldn't think twice about putting it in either way. ;)
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I'm actually surprised you didn't go with the 400GB drive. What you are planning on is only a TV capture card away from an ideal media PC.
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When in mortal danger,
When beset by doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout.
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You don't need 1,000 bucks. An athlon XP 2000+ will fly through the emulation like you wouldn't belive. You're setting up a massively overkill for an emulation box.
Also, Hitachi is the inheritor of the Deskstar (a.k.a. Deathstar) hard drive brand. I'd say go Seagate, Fujitsu, Samsung or Western Digital. Anything but Hitachi!
My particular "emulator" box sports an Athlon XP 1900+, 1.5 Gigs of RAM, an ATi Rage Pro PCI video card, a 1.2 Gb HD with SuSE 9.1, an 8x CD-ROM, and integrated AC97 sound. The "good parts" are the leftovers of the last upgrade, whereas the rest were scavenged.
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Walkiry,Jun 22 2005, 06:53 AM Wrote:You don't need 1,000 bucks. An athlon XP 2000+ will fly through the emulation like you wouldn't belive. You're setting up a massively overkill for an emulation box.
Also, Hitachi is the inheritor of the Deskstar (a.k.a. Deathstar) hard drive brand. I'd say go Seagate, Fujitsu, Samsung or Western Digital. Anything but Hitachi!
My particular "emulator" box sports an Athlon XP 1900+, 1.5 Gigs of RAM, an ATi Rage Pro PCI video card, a 1.2 Gb HD with SuSE 9.1, an 8x CD-ROM, and integrated AC97 sound. The "good parts" are the leftovers of the last upgrade, whereas the rest were scavenged.
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Two things. 1) I want to keep this system mobile, so microATX or SFF is a must. 2) A Pentium M processor uses WAY less energy, while delivering equal or BETTER results as a top-of-the-line Pentium 4. For your reading pleasure:
AOpen Pentium M Motherboards
Pentium M vs. Pentium 4 for Desktop Computing
Besides, I've heard all the noise about Hitachi, and so far I'm unphased. And as I said above, this is a hobby idea, with very specific goals in mind (extreme portability and low-power consumption).
Roland *The Gunslinger*
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OK, good luck to you then.
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