Batman Begins Does Not Suck

[Chesspiece_face]

That's definitely true, but when I watch an action movie I actually want to *see* the butt-kicking going down. I don't go to movies to get accurate representations of the real world - I go there to be entertained. I can understand what he was trying to do, but I think that it didn't work out too well.
[right][snapback]81670[/snapback][/right]

I agree, i'm not a fan of the cluttered, confused direction of shooting fighting scenes. I'm double-y not a fan of it in a batman movie. Every action the character makes is deliberate and serves a purpose. That's why batman has repeatedly been able to defeat the more Super heroes like Superman. He knows every one of their weaknesses and manipulates them to it's fullest.

I've rationalized the shooting style of the fight scenes in this movie as Batman just starting and being a bit sloppy. If they keep shooting the action scenes like this in the future movies i'll be highly dissapointed.

[Doc]

I haven't seen the movie.

But I did see a couple of clips here and there.

And by damn, it almost looks like ol Batty is using something like Aikido in the film.

My heart flutters. Defensive arts displayed in a Holywood film?

Aikido is the only martial art I have ever felt passionate about. It is the true art. There are no belts. Your most powerful enemy is self. And there are no little kids running around as 5th degree blackbelts or whatever.

I might be wrong, maybe it was just the editing of the clip or something, but it looks as if they were showing actual defensive posture, instead of glitzy glammy kung fu nonsense.

This almost makes sense, given that Batman had to trained in reflective and deflective measures to use his gauntlets properly.

Oh man... I feel sick. A movie where somebody did their homework on fighting styles. It can't be true. I must be wrong.

Please, please, somebody that knows what they are talking about tell me if this is true.

[DeeBye]

That's definitely true, but when I watch an action movie I actually want to *see* the butt-kicking going down. I don't go to movies to get accurate representations of the real world - I go there to be entertained. I can understand what he was trying to do, but I think that it didn't work out too well.
[right][snapback]81670[/snapback][/right]

I liked the presentation of the fights. He struck from out of the shadows, and you barely caught a glimpse of him before he was gone again. It was all very bat-like, and fed the theme perfectly. If the cameras were focused on every move he made, it would have cheapened the effect.

[jahcs]

I liked the presentation of the fights.  He struck from out of the shadows, and you barely caught a glimpse of him before he was gone again.  It was all very bat-like, and fed the theme perfectly.  If the cameras were focused on every move he made, it would have cheapened the effect.
[right][snapback]81674[/snapback][/right]

Good point DeeBye. The quick action shots were a bit hard to focus on linearly but following the overall progression of the fight scene wasn't too tough.

The disturbing trend in Hollywood for action shots is the 'shakycam effect.' Car chases, fist fights, it just drives me crazy when there is unneeded wiggle in the scene. (Ref. Bourne Supremacy car chase for more shakycam material.)

I saw this movie and I felt it was right up there with the first Batman movie. I am torn on declaring it the best because Jack Nicholson's Joker was so above and beyond.

Morgan Freeman and Michael Caine were very enjoyable to watch and the paths their characters were given through the film were quite entertaining.





Sort-of-Spoilers:




3 noteworthy things:

1. Has anybody besides me wondered what the floor of the Batcave should really look like the first time Bruce explores it?

2. The microwave device... Wouldn't it have cooked a lot more than just the water main under the street?

3. One of the best/funniest uses of a taser in an action film (both times).

[Rhydderch Hael]

Good point DeeBye.  The quick action shots were a bit hard to focus on linearly but following the overall progression of the fight scene wasn't too tough.

The disturbing trend in Hollywood for action shots is the 'shakycam effect.'  Car chases, fist fights, it just drives me crazy when there is unneeded wiggle in the scene.  (Ref. Bourne Supremacy car chase for more shakycam material.)
[right][snapback]81790[/snapback][/right]

Saving Private Ryan really set the trend for the shakycam effect. And, naturally, it's the only film that makes justified use of it.

There's two primary reasons why filmmakers have used and overused the effect in recent films: it's trendy and cool. It also does a good job covering up lackluster fight choreography. Your actors don't have to "sell" the fight as hard as they would have to in other cinematic styles. No one can tell that the blow was a good ten inches off the mark if the whole thing was close-shot and panned into a blur.

3 noteworthy things:

1.  Has anybody besides me wondered what the floor of the Batcave should really look like the first time Bruce explores it?

2.  The microwave device...  Wouldn't it have cooked a lot more than just the water main under the street?

3. One of the best/funniest uses of a taser in an action film (both times).
[right][snapback]81790[/snapback][/right]

1. There's running water. That'll wash away all the guano. ;)

2. It's a Wayne Enterprises doomsday device— so it's designed to be non-lethal. Technobabble would supply an explanation that it operates on a revolutionary principle (or a tight enough frequency) that it resonates only with the molecules of freshwater, not saltwater. Hence the salinity of human blood prevents the microwave generator from cooking people— instead it works only on clean, potable water.

3. I liked how the idea of "backup" got switched around, much better.

[Chesspiece_face]

The disturbing trend in Hollywood for action shots is the 'shakycam effect.'  Car chases, fist fights, it just drives me crazy when there is unneeded wiggle in the scene.  (Ref. Bourne Supremacy car chase for more shakycam material.)
:P [right][snapback]81790[/snapback][/right]

The Bourne Supremecy ranks as one of my least favorite movie for just this fact. And it sucks cause the first one was so good.

Hmmm, here's Jason Bourne sitting at his desk writing... lets wiggle the camera around. WTF?!?! there wasn't a single mounted camera in that whole movie.

[Fragbait]

I haven't seen the movie.

But I did see a couple of clips here and there.

And by damn, it almost looks like ol Batty is using something like Aikido in the film.

My heart flutters. Defensive arts displayed in a Holywood film?

Aikido is the only martial art I have ever felt passionate about. It is the true art. There are no belts. Your most powerful enemy is self. And there are no little kids running around as 5th degree blackbelts or whatever.

I might be wrong, maybe it was just the editing of the clip or something, but it looks as if they were showing actual defensive posture, instead of glitzy glammy kung fu nonsense.

This almost makes sense, given that Batman had to trained in reflective and deflective measures to use his gauntlets properly.

Oh man... I feel sick. A movie where somebody did their homework on fighting styles. It can't be true. I must be wrong.

Please, please, somebody that knows what they are talking about tell me if this is true.
[right][snapback]81673[/snapback][/right]

Hi,

What Batman alias Bruce Wayne is actually practising in the movie might be closest described as Ninjutsu. He learns to fight with swords and explosives, both of which I don't remember as Aikido's most used means. Perhaps they took some of the basic Aikido positions and mixed them up with some 'stylish' sword fighting, for that I wouldn't know. If you go into the movie expecting a lot of Aikido moves (using the energy that the enemy brings forward to you to his disadvantage, as far as I understand it), though, you might be disappointed. To often there's just plain 'blade rattles on blade' battle.


As to Aikido being the only 'true' art: There are others. Of course you won't find them by looking at the bigger American citys and searching for what is popular there. Those 'Karate' and 'Kungfu' schools are profitable only by letting rich guy's kiddies become a blackbelt when they just left the kindergarden. Also there are certain 'martial arts' that could rather be described as fighting sports, for example boxing, taekwondo or eskrima.
Being a former disciple and violet belt of traditional Shotokan Karate International in Germany (SKID), I have to insist that pretty much any 'wushu' as the Chinese would put it can be an art if practised traditionally and not with the focus in mind to brawl and compete with others. Perhaps the main difference between martial arts and their brothers the fighting sports is that the first ones also chiefly teach the mind and educate the character, while the second ones focus mainly on the body and the physical strength and technique.


Greetings, Fragbait

[Doc]

Hi,

What Batman alias Bruce Wayne is actually practising in the movie might be closest described as Ninjutsu. He learns to fight with swords and explosives, both of which I don't remember as Aikido's most used means. Perhaps they took some of the basic Aikido positions and mixed them up with some 'stylish' sword fighting, for that I wouldn't know. If you go into the movie expecting a lot of Aikido moves (using the energy that the enemy brings forward to you to his disadvantage, as far as I understand it), though, you might be disappointed. To often there's just plain 'blade rattles on blade' battle.
As to Aikido being the only 'true' art: There are others. Of course you won't find them by looking at the bigger American citys and searching for what is popular there. Those 'Karate' and 'Kungfu' schools are profitable only by letting rich guy's kiddies become a blackbelt when they just left the kindergarden. Also there are certain 'martial arts' that could rather be described as fighting sports, for example boxing, taekwondo or eskrima.
Being a former disciple and violet belt of traditional Shotokan Karate International in Germany (SKID), I have to insist that pretty much any 'wushu' as the Chinese would put it can be an art if practised traditionally and not with the focus in mind to brawl and compete with others. Perhaps the main difference between martial arts and their brothers the fighting sports is that the first ones also chiefly teach the mind and educate the character, while the second ones focus mainly on the body and the physical strength and technique.
Greetings, Fragbait
[right][snapback]81844[/snapback][/right]

Yeah, see, that's my beef. Most of the arts now are "sports" and this bothers me for some odd reason I can not explain. Sports are about others. The art should be about self. Bah, I am a picky old fart.

I tried others... And nothing spoke to my heart. Aikido is more than reabsorbing the energy of your enemy and redirecting it. It is also about absorbing said energy harmlessly. That is why Aikido students can have 2x4s broken over their face with out harm, or get punched in the throat, or any number of seemingly impossible feats.

And if Batman is using Jitsu in whatever flavour, then he is most likely using some form of Aikido, which is the perfected form of Ninjitsu and Jujitsu, the ancient way of the Ninja cult. Modern day Aikido is perfection of the art, both in body and mind, bringing full balance to both halves. It is the perfect marriage of the way of the hand and the way of the sword.

I am no master of anything. I am still a student. And I will be till I die. I make no claims of perfection or great ability. A long long time ago, I would spar with my master... And we would circle each other for hours with no attack. There would be a faint wrinkling of the clothing... Or a flare of the nostril, the twitch of a muscle under the arm, and we would know what the other was about to do and already be countering mentally... And the attack never seemed to come. Those watching us were probably bored to tears. When something did happen though, I am fairly confident that it was spectacular to watch. The flurry of blows and deflections were amazing I am sure. It was full contact, no holding back. If you didn't want broken bones, don't be there where bones are broken.

I was trained under Ernie Sh¡to. I had to make that funny looking to defeat the Lounge's filter. It's not a bad word in this case. Ernie pioneered the concept of absorbtion Aikido. To become like water. His teachings are still in effect today, in what has to be the most brutal training around. I am sure you have an idea of what it's like.

I miss him. I never got to say goodbye when he passed away. I do miss him horribly. I am not overly fond of most human beings but he was such a good and kind man. He never charged money for lessons. He turned most people away when they came to learn. He would teach in exchange for food or other things he needed. And cleaning the studio. He never asked for a dime. His students paid the electric bill, brought him food, gave him clothing, covered his feet and provided him only with what he needed.

Now I feel incredibly sad.