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Minionman,Jun 6 2005, 08:09 AM Wrote:That quote simply means there can be no spoons if seen one at a time. There can, however, be more than one spoon, or fractions of a spoon. Spoons exist because you are really seeing a fraction of a spoon so close to a full one that your eyes can't tell the difference. :huh:
try that one out for size. :)
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Of course there's a spoon- you're what's not real.
"AND THEN THE PALADIN TOOK MY EYES!"
Forever oppressed by the GOLs.
Grom Hellscream: [Orcish] kek
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Rinnhart,Jun 11 2005, 03:46 PM Wrote:Of course there's a spoon- you're what's not real.
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True, I am not real, I am an entity conposed of psychic projections of a hidden sections of people's minds who want "me" to exist.
I may be dead, but I'm not old (source: see lavcat)
The gloves come off, I'm playing hardball. It's fourth and 15 and you're looking at a full-court press. (Frank Drebin in The Naked Gun)
Some people in forums do the next best thing to listening to themselves talk, writing and reading what they write (source, my brother)
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Minionman,Jun 11 2005, 02:32 PM Wrote:True, I am not real, I am an entity conposed of psychic projections of a hidden sections of people's minds who want "me" to exist.
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Is it discrimination if the person doesn't exist?
"AND THEN THE PALADIN TOOK MY EYES!"
Forever oppressed by the GOLs.
Grom Hellscream: [Orcish] kek
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Rinnhart,Jun 12 2005, 12:55 AM Wrote:Is it discrimination if the person doesn't exist?
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If one can't discriminate between the real and unreal, one should seek help for their psychosis. ;)
Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
So existentialists are pyscotic?
They see everything as product of their own mind - which leaves no distinction between "real" and "unreal".
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Ghostiger,Jun 12 2005, 10:47 AM Wrote:So existentialists are pyscotic?
They see everything as product of their own mind - which leaves no distinction between "real" and "unreal".
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"Leaves no distinction?" Nonsense.
Fantasy versus reality is the litmus test for the diagnosis with a psychosis. I would expect a pure existentialist to be borderline psychotic if he pursues the unreal as though it were real, and cannot recognize the difference. I don't pretend a philosophy can be implemented in its purest form, nor do rational philosophers.
Any existentialist who believes as you illustrated has indeed passed the point of reason and is functionally psychotic.
Go fish. :D
Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
Posts: 1,991
Threads: 103
Joined: May 2003
Occhidiangela,Jun 12 2005, 01:44 PM Wrote:"Leaves no distinction?" Nonsense.
Fantasy versus reality is the litmus test for the diagnosis with a psychosis. I would expect a pure existentialist to be borderline psychotic if he pursues the unreal as though it were real, and cannot recognize the difference. I don't pretend a philosophy can be implemented in its purest form, nor do rational philosophers.
Any existentialist who believes as you illustrated has indeed passed the point of reason and is functionally psychotic.
Go fish. :D
Occhi
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No no no... An existentialist pushed to that point is not psychotic... He is Syd Barrett.
And just a question, how many philosophers do you know that were entirely rational? There's a LONG list of mental illness right there. I think, how do I put this, I think to become a true philosopher, where you are actually living the ideals and pioneering new ground rather than regurgitating stuff learned from books, I personally believe one had to be a bit nutters. Unhinged. Bats in the belfry. Larger than life. A certain ammount of mental disconnection is required to achieve new schools of thought or to push through barriers of rational thinking to whatever lies beyond. One must first be willing to risk his or her own sanity to test their mettle. One must learn how to peer into the void and not be afraid of what peers back at you. It is not until we place our selves at risk that we learn valuable truths. Like... Cause and effect. Anybody can understand the gist of it... But to truly understand cause and effect, one must smash their thumb with a hammer. All truth will be made totally clear and self evident.
Just my opinion, I am probably wrong. But the only people who change the world are the ones crazy enough to believe they can.
Nobody ever remembers the quiet nobodies that stayed at home all day doing nothing... But the ones that go out into the streets and drink hemlock or set themselves on fire will live on in imagination for a long time.
Reality is what you make it. It's like clay. It can be shaped. To observe it is to effect it's outcome.
All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.
"Isn't this where...."
There is a signifigant difference between someone who has occassional pyscotic episodes as a break from a gennerally rational perspective(this often happens with creative people) and someone who has an irrational perspective or or a more or less perminate psycosis.
And the fact that a disproportionate number of the worlds historic movers and shakers were a bit unhinged is hardly positive for being unhinged.
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06-12-2005, 11:03 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2005, 11:05 PM by Occhidiangela.)
Quote:I think, how do I put this, I think to become a true philosopher, where you are actually living the ideals and pioneering new ground rather than regurgitating stuff learned from books, I personally believe one had to be a bit nutters. Unhinged. Bats in the belfry. Larger than life.
I don't believe that, Doc. I think that is a bit of romantic hyperbole. You need not be nuts to think outside the box, which is what philosophers do. I used to call it "looking at things sideways."
Quote:A certain ammount of mental disconnection is required to achieve new schools of thought or to push through barriers of rational thinking to whatever lies beyond.
Really? Required? I'd say significant mental power, and discipline, is required to be able to move the mind in unconventional paths, and then be able to make some sense of it when one has returned to a more normal mode to record and synthesize the experience.
Quote:One must first be willing to risk his or her own sanity to test their mettle.
Not buying that box of donuts. You need not risk insanity to find the edge of your own reasoning powers. You appear to be mixing rationality, sanity, and lateral or unconventional thinking into a stew here. The semantic trick of "what is sane and what is insane" appears to be operating here.
Quote:One must learn how to peer into the void and not be afraid of what peers back at you. It is not until we place our selves at risk that we learn valuable truths.
Won't argue with that, stretching the envelope of understanding involves some risk.
Quote:Like... Cause and effect. Anybody can understand the gist of it... But to truly understand cause and effect, one must smash their thumb with a hammer. All truth will be made totally clear and self evident.
Harrumph. I need not smash my own thumb, I can watch you smash your thumb and learn a valuable lesson.
Quote:Just my opinion, I am probably wrong. But the only people who change the world are the ones crazy enough to believe they can.
Crazy or focused? Confident or deluded?
Quote:Nobody ever remembers the quiet nobodies that stayed at home all day doing nothing... But the ones that go out into the streets and drink hemlock or set themselves on fire will live on in imagination for a long time.
Some of the Hemlock drinkers, and a few of the monks who set themselves on fire will be remembered, if they are linked in the legend and myth of their story with a powerful enough symbol or cause. The rest will be written off as attention whores.
Quote:Reality is what you make it. It's like clay. It can be shaped. To observe it is to effect it's outcome.
Soundbyte City, the train has arrived. All off who are getting off, all aboard who are getting aboard. :P
Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
Posts: 1,991
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Joined: May 2003
Occhidiangela,Jun 12 2005, 06:03 PM Wrote:I don't believe that, Doc. I think that is a bit of romantic hyperbole. You need not be nuts to think outside the box, which is what philosophers do. I used to call it "looking at things sideways."
Really? Required? I'd say significant mental power, and discipline, is required to be able to move the mind in unconventional paths, and then be able to make some sense of it when one has returned to a more normal mode to record and synthesize the experience.
Not buying that box of donuts. You need not risk insanity to find the edge of your own reasoning powers. You appear to be mixing rationality, sanity, and lateral or unconventional thinking into a stew here. The semantic trick of "what is sane and what is insane" appears to be operating here.
Won't argue with that, stretching the envelope of understanding involves some risk.
Harrumph. I need not smash my own thumb, I can watch you smash your thumb and learn a valuable lesson.
Crazy or focused? Confident or deluded?
Some of the Hemlock drinkers, and a few of the monks who set themselves on fire will be remembered, if they are linked in the legend and myth of their story with a powerful enough symbol or cause. The rest will be written off as attention whores.
Soundbyte City, the train has arrived. All off who are getting off, all aboard who are getting aboard. :P
Occhi
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Ah, see, there goes that observation altering reality bit again. When you watch me smash my thumb with a hammer, it is a lesson. It could be defined as a tragedy. A lesson in the human condition where one human being stood by helplessly while another suffered needlessly. Why, you did nothing to comfort me! When I watch you smash your thumb with a hammer, it could be defined as a comedy. Wow, sailors really can turn the air blue! So again the perception of reality lies in the observer.
Attention whores? Booo hisssss... Sssounds like sssteam essscaping here.
Thinking outside of the box? Romantic hyperbole? Being nuts? Bah. The quality and quantity of philosophy has been greatly reduced since most folks have stopped drinking from lead cups and have careful processing techniques to ensure their grain is not fermented with psychotropic properties. No, you don't have to be crazy to call your self a philosopher, but it helps.
Brain stew? Jaded? Tell me, tell me one thing that is rational in existential thinking... To wit... That you are an isolated lone force against a hostile uncaring universe. And then to believe that you, all alone, can have some hand in shaping this universe solely through your own power? Is that rational? I'd say somebody would have to have a healthy sense of megalomania and just a touch of lunacy to believe one could effect the outcome of events once one realises just is what is working against them.
Can a get a harrumph!
All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.
"Isn't this where...."
Posts: 904
Threads: 16
Joined: Feb 2003
Doc,Jun 12 2005, 08:39 PM Wrote:Ah, see, there goes that observation altering reality bit again. When you watch me smash my thumb with a hammer, it is a lesson. It could be defined as a tragedy. A lesson in the human condition where one human being stood by helplessly while another suffered needlessly. Why, you did nothing to comfort me! When I watch you smash your thumb with a hammer, it could be defined as a comedy. Wow, sailors really can turn the air blue! So again the perception of reality lies in the observer.
So let's remove the observer: you can no longer observe because your eyes have run off with the dish and the spoon. You now must have your hand on the thumb when the hammer comes down in order to feel what has happened. You might take the hammer and beat to death the owner of the thumb that was supposed to be hit instead. Or you might realize that there is no true hammer but M.C. Hammer, though I'm pretty sure he doesn't exist anymore either. Alternatively you might turn the other cheek, apply some Vanilla Ice to your wound, and wait until tomorrow night's skydiving lesson when you can test whether parachute pants substitute for an actual parachute. At that point, the lesson really won't matter anymore. (/1990)
Which begs a question: can blind people skydive? How will they know when to pull the cord? And if the blind skydiver falls on a tree, will it make a sight? It reminds me of a Zen Koan: "If your webpage makes fun of the Amish, how will they know?" Is it morally right to use the internet to relentlessly mock the Amish? Ohh, but this prattle is more applicable to another thread...
Quote:No, you don't have to be crazy to call your self a philosopher, but it helps.
Does that mean mostly crazy people would call themselves philosophers, or does it mean mostly crazy people could accurately call themselves philosophers?
Quote:Tell me, tell me one thing that is rational in existential thinking... To wit... That you are an isolated lone force against a hostile uncaring universe. And then to believe that you, all alone, can have some hand in shaping this universe solely through your own power? Is that rational? I'd say somebody would have to have a healthy sense of megalomania and just a touch of lunacy to believe one could effect the outcome of events once one realises just is what is working against them.
It seems to be a philosophy with a severe "If it's not with me, it's against me" outlook that outright discards the first clause, but despite that rather paranoid assumption, it does seem rather upbeat with its "Can do!" attitude. I would like to see existentialist PSAs.
(Voiceover by Keanu Reeves reprising his role from... wait, does it make a difference?)
The universe...
Hates you.
You...
Are alone. (Whoa!)
But you...
Can do.
Whatever you want to. (Dude!)
All these Occhi/Doc threads leave me feeling overwhelmed by puns and TMI. I think what this Lounge needs is a good Peteing.
*misses Pete*
-Lemmy
Posts: 1,991
Threads: 103
Joined: May 2003
LemmingofGlory,Jun 12 2005, 09:22 PM Wrote:So let's remove the observer: you can no longer observe because your eyes have run off with the dish and the spoon. You now must have your hand on the thumb when the hammer comes down in order to feel what has happened. You might take the hammer and beat to death the owner of the thumb that was supposed to be hit instead. Or you might realize that there is no true hammer but M.C. Hammer, though I'm pretty sure he doesn't exist anymore either. Alternatively you might turn the other cheek, apply some Vanilla Ice to your wound, and wait until tomorrow night's skydiving lesson when you can test whether parachute pants substitute for an actual parachute. At that point, the lesson really won't matter anymore. (/1990)
Which begs a question: can blind people skydive? How will they know when to pull the cord? And if the blind skydiver falls on a tree, will it make a sight? It reminds me of a Zen Koan: "If your webpage makes fun of the Amish, how will they know?" Is it morally right to use the internet to relentlessly mock the Amish? Ohh, but this prattle is more applicable to another thread...
Does that mean mostly crazy people would call themselves philosophers, or does it mean mostly crazy people could accurately call themselves philosophers?
It seems to be a philosophy with a severe "If it's not with me, it's against me" outlook that outright discards the first clause, but despite that rather paranoid assumption, it does seem rather upbeat with its "Can do!" attitude. I would like to see existentialist PSAs.
(Voiceover by Keanu Reeves reprising his role from... wait, does it make a difference?)
The universe...
Hates you.
You...
Are alone. (Whoa!)
But you...
Can do.
Whatever you want to. (Dude!)
All these Occhi/Doc threads leave me feeling overwhelmed by puns and TMI. I think what this Lounge needs is a good Peteing.
*misses Pete*
-Lemmy
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Lemmy, one man can make a difference. I believe that. Look at it this way. Your post might make one person laugh. That person that laughed might carry that positive energy with them, which in turn, may cause somebody else to laugh. And that person could be in a situation where they really needed a laugh. What we do has a ripple effect, and we have no idea how profoundly we may effect others.
So we as a lone force can indeed effect the hostile universe around us. Megalomania or positive thinking? You tell me.
All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.
"Isn't this where...."
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Threads: 16
Joined: Feb 2003
Doc,Jun 13 2005, 12:09 AM Wrote:Lemmy, one man can make a difference. I believe that. Look at it this way. Your post might make one person laugh. That person that laughed might carry that positive energy with them, which in turn, may cause somebody else to laugh. And that person could be in a situation where they really needed a laugh. What we do has a ripple effect, and we have no idea how profoundly we may effect others.
So we as a lone force can indeed effect the hostile universe around us. Megalomania or positive thinking? You tell me.
Hey, look! When I respond with nonsense the Doc is almost lucid!
Conjecture:
Sense + Doc = Nonsense
Nonsense + Doc = Sense
Subtracting:
Sense - Nonsense = Nonsense - Sense
2(Sense - Nonsense) = 0
Thus, Sense = Nonsense.
Gasp!
-Lemmy
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Threads: 103
Joined: May 2003
LemmingofGlory,Jun 13 2005, 12:27 AM Wrote:Hey, look! When I respond with nonsense the Doc is almost lucid!
Conjecture:
Sense + Doc = Nonsense
Nonsense + Doc = Sense
Subtracting:
Sense - Nonsense = Nonsense - Sense
2(Sense - Nonsense) = 0
Thus, Sense = Nonsense.
Gasp!
-Lemmy
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Oh dear. I shall have to get that fixed.
All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.
"Isn't this where...."
Posts: 6,430
Threads: 204
Joined: Feb 2003
LemmingofGlory,Jun 12 2005, 11:27 PM Wrote:Hey, look! When I respond with nonsense the Doc is almost lucid!
Conjecture:
Sense + Doc = Nonsense
Nonsense + Doc = Sense
Subtracting:
Sense - Nonsense = Nonsense - Sense
2(Sense - Nonsense) = 0
Thus, Sense = Nonsense.
Gasp!
-Lemmy
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Answer to the thread's original question: Doc is a bot that is turned off, since his value is zero rather than one. Since the bot is in a perpetual state of off, manual intervention is required to activate Doc. This paradox of a manual bot is what induces the observed contradictory posting pattern.
QED
Well done, Lem, you the man!
Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
Posts: 1,991
Threads: 103
Joined: May 2003
Occhidiangela,Jun 13 2005, 09:26 AM Wrote:Answer to the thread's original question: Doc is a bot that is turned off, since his value is zero rather than one. Since the bot is in a perpetual state of off, manual intervention is required to activate Doc. This paradox of a manual bot is what induces the observed contradictory posting pattern.
QED
Well done, Lem, you the man!
Occhi
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You mean... I am a zero? **Sniffle**
All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.
"Isn't this where...."
Posts: 904
Threads: 16
Joined: Feb 2003
Occhidiangela,Jun 13 2005, 10:26 AM Wrote:Answer to the thread's original question: Doc is a bot that is turned off, since his value is zero rather than one. Since the bot is in a perpetual state of off, manual intervention is required to activate Doc. This paradox of a manual bot is what induces the observed contradictory posting pattern.
But more relevantly, if nonsense and sense are equivalent, then there is no crazy.
WE ARE ALL PHILOSOPHERS!1
-Lemmy
Posts: 6,430
Threads: 204
Joined: Feb 2003
LemmingofGlory,Jun 13 2005, 09:02 AM Wrote:But more relevantly, if nonsense and sense are equivalent, then there is no crazy.
WE ARE ALL PHILOSOPHERS!1
-Lemmy
[right][snapback]80396[/snapback][/right]
" Lurko ergo cogito ergo sum"
"I lurk therefore I think therefore I am.
-= Rani Des Plaines =-
Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
Posts: 341
Threads: 8
Joined: Feb 2003
Laughter is infective .... :lol: ... go laugh on someone ..... :whistling:
Stormrage :
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TaMeOsis / 90 Paladin - Prot
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I think part of the problem here is this...
Most of you look at philosophy as something you learn, or schools of thought, or some sum of experience.
I do not.
I look at it as a complete lifestyle, thus "Being the Philosopher."
And to do such one must live under the right conditions conductive to thought. It is entirely up to the philosopher themselves though to find the conditions right for them.
That might mean becoming a raging alcoholic, warping your self with drugs, and retreating from life to go live on a farm some place in solitude. Or might mean traveling to various war zones to experience the human condition up close and personal. Or fixing up a busted old motorcycle and making your way acrossed some great country, with nothing but your thoughts and cornfields or wheatfields and rocks to keep you company. And dealing with the ups and downs of having that old busted up motorcycle, and getting stuck, broke down, in all manner of strange places and the people that live there. (Or a VW microbus works well for this too)
Philosophy is also a verb... An action. Irrational action? Maybe. It is what you make of it.
All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.
"Isn't this where...."
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