U.S. election update

[Minionman]

Supreme court reverses decision! :w00t:


Actually, started thsi thread ot see what people are thinking about the election after a few months. I've been reading more politics and economics lately, and the election that was a "bad vs. neutral" in my view looks more and more a lesser of two evils election the more I read. Even before the election, I had in my mind that there's a lot out there besides "liberal/consetvative" out there, and reading more of it gets me noticing how little people talked about that I'm interested in. I'm not interested in hearing any more about gay marriage or (insert prefix)lateral diplomacy, Lets see plans for rebuilding Iraq, ideas for what people can do about divorces, some audit type thing to find money draining programs, etc. (yes, gay marriage and diplomacy effect people but they were run through so many times as symbolic issues that they got less important).

I'll probably be looking a lot more at the lower level politicians next time around, since the first time I didn't know who most of the people were on the ballot (wow, there's a lot), and they seem to have a lot of effects on what goes on as well.

Doesn't congress have better things ot do than oversee steroids? Plus Schiavo. Partially I might just need to look around more, or talk more, but These are the two big things I heard about congress this year. Arctic drilling got slipped through, but I didn't hear about it much, which was strange. I don't like it, but at least it was something important in a way that has a big effect.

Bush doesn't seem as likely to follow up on the religious stuff that was the big decider in the election. that closes the gap a little, but I still want some other ideas in control.

[Chaerophon]

I'll reserve comment on any of the other topics that you brought up. Sorry, no time for an 'arch-thread' these days.

However, I will say this...

Doesn't congress have better things ot do than oversee steroids?

While I disagree with some of the showboating tactics that have been brought into play in recent publicized interrogations on the subject, I must say that I support legislative activism on steroids.

This is an issue that goes beyond personal/individual choice. With the rise of steroid use among professional athletes comes a cultural shift - steroids become a health, and not a personal choice, issue. There are two principal reasons that this is the case: 1.) by creating a sporting culture where steroid use is necessary in order to succeed, younger and younger people will begin/have begun using steroids in order to 'get that edge'. It would be a shame if people pursuing their dreams (which may, incidentally, include college scholarships) were not merely tempted, but forced into using steroids if they wanted to reach their ultimate goals. 2.) Steroids kill people. The example being set by our athletes is not a good one. When 14 and 15 year old kids are using steroids because they want to follow in the footsteps of their heroes, it is no longer a matter of 'you choose it, you deal with the consequences'. Sports matter to kids. A lot - sometimes more than what they ought to. In an environment permissive to steroids, in which using steroids garners far less of a punishment than does smoking pot, kids WILL use steroids - whether their parents have done their jobs or not - and it will begin to kill more and more people.

On a more sentimental note: sporting culture in North America deserves to be free from this taint. While it is common to hear people argue that 'in the scheme of things, sports aren't that important', I tend to disagree. Sports ARE important to people - they are a massive part of popular culture (if not THE largest contributor). They ought to retain their integrity.

[jahcs]

I'm not sure what you're asking for here. Do you just want a list of what each of us views as important issues in the coming elections? Do you want us to castigate/defend the current administration? Or would you like us to state opinions on the issues you brought up?

In general I agree with the sentiment behind your post and I would encourage you to continue researching candidates and the issues that drive our electoral decision making process.

edited to help clarity, I hope. ;)

[Minionman]

I'm not sure what you're asking for here.  Do you just want a list of what each of us views as important issues in the coming elections?  Do you want us to castigate/defend the current administration?  Or would you like us to state opinions on the issues you brought up?

In general I agree with the sentiment behind your post and I would encourage you to continue researching candidates and the issues that drive our electoral decision making process.

edited to help clarity, I hope. ;)
[right][snapback]79095[/snapback][/right]

Anything related to what you brought up. I just posted anything I saw that relates to the election that I've noticed since then.

[Occhidiangela]

1. Congress and Steroids. The idea is, among other things, to close the loopholes in laws regarding controlled substances. Since baseball is a sort of "Congressionally Authorized Monopoly," the aim is to legislate for "the good of the game and its impact on society." See also state governments and their requirements for keeping one's state boxing license.

2. The election. It is a matter of history.

3. Next pressing selection is who will succeed Kofi. China has a few ideas, as their section of "the-developing-world-imperialism's-victims" is next up on the Wog roster.

4. Schiavo. She's dead. Leave her alone.

Bush doesn't seem as likely to follow up on the religious stuff that was the big decider in the election.  that closes the gap a little, but I still want some other ideas in control.

Besides the minor fact that "the religious stuff" points to the heart of a fault line in American base cultural assumptions . . .

How does it feel to want? Bet you want the Cubbies to win the Series too. :P

Like any democratic style of government, we get the government we deserve.
Occhi

[Tal]

How does it feel to want?  Bet you want the Cubbies to win the Series too.  :P
[right][snapback]79101[/snapback][/right]

*shakes fist* And they will win one day!

[Occhidiangela]

*shakes fist* And they will win one day!
[right][snapback]79106[/snapback][/right]

Oh, they'll win, but will it be before or after the Astro's win one? :blink: We have jokes down here in Texas about snowboarding in Hell the day the Astro's win the Series.

Occhi

[Minionman]

Besides the minor fact that "the religious stuff" points to the heart of a fault line in American base cultural assumptions . . .

How does it feel to want?  Bet you want the Cubbies to win the Series too.  :P
[right][snapback]79101[/snapback][/right]

I don't really care about the cubs (or the White sox for that matter), since I don't really follow sports. Even though those guys have been elected, I'd still rather have some other kinds of people in power.

What it looks like is that the "religious stuff" will be a "argue for it, maybe a few things pass" type of deal. As for it being the "fault line of culture", those religious issues are one of things I've gotten sick of hearing over and over again because of the polarized "only 2 sides" way many of them get argued.

[Occhidiangela]

I don't really care about the cubs (or the White sox for that matter), since I don't really follow sports.  Even though those guys have been elected, I'd still rather have some other kinds of people in power.

What it looks like is that the "religious stuff" will be a "argue for it, maybe a few things pass" type of deal.  As for it being the "fault line of culture", those religious issues are  one of things I've gotten sick of hearing over and over again because of the polarized "only 2 sides" way many of them get argued.
[right][snapback]79114[/snapback][/right]

Those arguments won't go away anytime soon. The trick is to try and find common ground. Therein lies the chance for progress.

Occhi

[Chesspiece_face]

Those arguments won't go away anytime soon.  The trick is to try and find common ground.  Therein lies the chance for progress.

Occhi
[right][snapback]79124[/snapback][/right]

Unfortunately i don't see that happening either. The powers that be seem to have a "I'm a uniter... as long as everyone agrees with me" mentality of late. I could go on forever about the faults in politics today, and just as importantly (if not more) the failures by the media of reporting/representing political issues but i've already got a migraine. no reason to make it worse.

"LEEEERROOOOOOOOOY JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNKINNNNS"
- George W. Bush speaking at the UN

[eppie]

[quote=Occhidiangela,May 31 2005, 11:03 PM]

Besides the minor fact that "the religious stuff" points to the heart of a fault line in American base cultural assumptions . . .


unquote



I heard that there are several states in the US where it is not legal to teach evolution theory on schools.
As always I probably will be half wrong-half right.
Anyway, seems quite shocking to me. But what has the national government to say about this?

[jahcs]

I heard that there are several states in the US where it is not legal to teach evolution theory  on schools.
As always I probably will be half wrong-half right.
[right][snapback]79152[/snapback][/right]

To have fun with your grammar:

It must be illegal to teach administrators and politicians the important points of the evolution of schools in most states - the school systems and curriculum appear to be devolving. :P

[Occhidiangela]

[quote=Occhidiangela,May 31 2005, 11:03 PM]

Besides the minor fact that "the religious stuff" points to the heart of a fault line in American base cultural assumptions . . .
unquote
I heard that there are several states in the US where it is not legal to teach evolution theory on schools.
As always I probably will be half wrong-half right.
Anyway, seems quite shocking to me. But what has the national government to say about this?
[right][snapback]79152[/snapback][/right]

Eppie: In our Constitution, the States delegate specific powers to the Federal government. All others are reserved to the states. Public education is not delegated, which allows some states a bit of sovereignty on that score, hence the Scopes Trial back in the 30's. (20's?)

Does that answer your question? US is not Europe, in a lot of ways.

Occhi

[Minionman]

I heard that there are several states in the US where it is not legal to teach evolution theory  on schools.
As always I probably will be half wrong-half right.
Anyway, seems quite shocking to me. But what has the national government to say about this?
[right][snapback]79152[/snapback][/right]

Not exactly. I don't think its technically illegal anywhere, but a lot of state and county areas have people fooling around with the teaching to make evolution seem less accepted by scientists than it really is.

[Occhidiangela]

Not exactly.  I don't think its technically illegal anywhere, but a lot of state and county areas have people fooling around with the teaching to make evolution seem less accepted by scientists than it really is.
[right][snapback]79263[/snapback][/right]

For more on that topic, see any website sponsored by the ICR (Institute for Creation Research) to get a sense of who and what is doing this.

I was surprised to find no-fooling scientists pursuing a line of inquiry that the majority of their colleagues consider a dead end.


I'd say those folks have a significantly "uphill" battle in most cases, though their flood research provides some interesting food for thought. Too bad for their case, there are many other disciplines that don't match up.

Occhi

[Griselda]

At least in local politics, people have realized that it's not all that tough to get a seat on the school board. There's usually not that much interest in running for school board, and a lot less people pay attention to the school board race than they do to the presidential campaign.

In recent Oregon school board campaigns, we've seen quite a few candidates with fairly extreme views on a variety of issues (and the intent of writing their extreme points of view into district policy). As a result, it seems like people are becoming more careful with the questions they ask candidates during school board campaigns. So, this tactic might end up helping to create a more informed electorate in the end, without changing how topics such as evolution or homosexuality are approached by the schools.

[Thecla]

For more on that topic, see any website sponsored by the ICR (Institute for Creation Research) to get a sense of who and what is doing this.
[right][snapback]79270[/snapback][/right]

Creationist nutcases?

[Occhidiangela]

Creationist nutcases?
[right][snapback]79318[/snapback][/right]

If I thought they were all nutcases, I'd not have bothered. Plenty of hot air in that quarter, for sure, and for my money too much tunnel vision trying to masquerade as science, in terms of what conclusions are drawn on the evidence, and "working toward the answer."

Occhi

[Gurnsey]

At least in local politics, people have realized that it's not all that tough to get a seat on the school board.  There's usually not that much interest in running for school board, and a lot less people pay attention to the school board race than they do to the presidential campaign.

In recent Oregon school board campaigns, we've seen quite a few candidates with fairly extreme views on a variety of issues (and the intent of writing their extreme points of view into district policy).  As a result, it seems like people are becoming more careful with the questions they ask candidates during school board campaigns.  So, this tactic might end up helping to create a more informed electorate in the end, without changing how topics such as evolution or homosexuality are approached by the schools.
[right][snapback]79284[/snapback][/right]

Speaking of Oregon (Portland in specific) schools...ugh. I live right across the river and wow, what a mess it looks like from over here. 'Schools are sying that need more money, but let's pay a ton of administrators 6-digit salaries to find out why we spend so much money!'

Though I can't say that I'm much happier living in Washington, with our fake governor's 'count ballots until I win' tactics...and then to say that there is a lot of voter fraud going on but 'let's do something about it next time, but forget this last election'.

Blah, I sound like such a whiner.

I heard that there are several states in the US where it is not legal to teach evolution theory on schools.
As always I probably will be half wrong-half right.
Anyway, seems quite shocking to me. But what has the national government to say about this?

I don't think the national government should have anything to say about this. Though I think the results will be positive, I'm not too happy about the money they are throwing at standardized testing either. As for religious views vs. schools:

I went to elementary school in a town that was primarily Jehovah's Witness. Let me tell you, that was odd. No birthday or holiday celebrations of any kind allowed! No cupcakes, no mention, no nothing, and be really careful handing out invitations to a party.

Looking back on it, what I approve of in this situation is that there was nothing written into the local district about these matters or regarding any views on creationism vs. evolution (forgive me, any Jehovah's Witnesses out there, if I get this wrong, but they are not fundimentalists nor do they believe in strict creationism or evolution, but the views on this are...interesting). Far from a matter for the federal government to handle, this was not even a matter for state or even local government - it was taken care of by parents, students, and teachers. Perhaps this only worked as it was a small town...ah well.
</ramble>

[Gurnsey]

Oh, they'll win, but will it be before or after the Astro's win one?&nbsp; :blink:&nbsp; We have jokes down here in Texas about snowboarding in Hell the day the Astro's win the Series.

Occhi
[right][snapback]79110[/snapback][/right]

Ah the Astro's...home to the only indoor game ever to be cancelled on account of rain ;)