How much energy for a Sorc?

[Sirbub]

I was wondering how much I should put in energy, thus saving them for Vitality. Right now I am runing with energy shield and am runing thru mana pots like there going out of style, but I feel that it is keeping me alive longer cause its not all going to my life. I also heard that some ppl dont like ES at all and go for one of the Ice armor skills. Ok heres the thing. Atm I have more hit points than mana so as to keep that nasty life burn curse off me and was thinking of only putting about 100 points total into energy and dumping the rest into Vit or should I put more into energy for a better mana pool. I plan on getting a Tal set and a couple Soj ring to help with the mana but is that going to be enough for me?

thx for your help
SIrbub

[Occhidiangela]

I was wondering how much I should put in energy, thus saving them for Vitality.  Right now I am runing with energy shield and am runing thru mana pots like there going out of style, but I feel that it is keeping me alive longer cause its not all going to my life.  I also heard that some ppl dont like ES at all and go for one of the Ice armor skills.  Ok heres the thing.  Atm I have more hit points than mana so as to keep that nasty life burn curse off me and was thinking of only putting about 100 points total into energy and dumping the rest into Vit or should I put more into energy for a better mana pool.  I plan on getting a Tal set and a couple Soj ring to help with the mana but is that going to be enough for me? 

thx for your help
SIrbub
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Would you mind advising us of your build to date, and your intentions, to help frame an answer?

Some skill trees eat mana faster than others.

What is your Warmth skill level, and why?

Do you use Vulpine items? Items that read "x% damage goes to mana."

You are correct in assessing that Energy Shield, when you tend to get hit a lot, eats mana like a pirhana eats a bleeding pig in a river. That is a deliberate design, based partly on the cheesey Mana Shield spell in Diablo I that contributed to the Sorcerer being able to approach God Mode without exploits or hacks.

If you want to eat less mana with your ES, get hit less often. That is where an Ice Shield/Defiance Merc high DR can help you.

Occhi

[Sirbub]

Would you mind advising us of your build to date, and your intentions, to help frame an answer?

Atm I am lvl 40 and am in NM and plan on going on Baal runs till about mid 70s. I curantly have Frozen orb, 1 or 2 in blizard, 1 in warmth (I have a Leaf rune word to help bring it to about 7 or 8). I also have Fire Ball and Meteor for my fire tree.

I plan on maxing frozen orb, cold mastery, fire ball and mabe blizzard but not sure atm.
Normaly I solo most of the time and plan on doing MF runs in NM+. So any advice will be greatly helpfull

Do you use Vulpine items

I have seen that name a while ago but I have forgoten what they do.

[QUOTE]I plan on getting a Tal set and a couple Soj ring to help with the mana but is that going to be enough for me? [QUOTE]
Not sure what else to get other than some MF gear. It will probly hiinder on what I can get to drop.


Sirbub

[DeeBye]

For a Orb/FB Sorceress, I see no need to put ANY points into Energy. As long as you can get ahold of the standard issue Sorceress gear (ie. Harlequin Crest, Occulus, etc.), you'll have plenty of mana by endgame even with base Energy. Sure, you'll have to drink mana potions now and again, but they are easy to find/buy.

The stat points savings are worth investing in Dexterity for blocking, assuming you use a decent shield. For a MF Sorceress, a Grim Shield or Troll's Nest "Rhyme" runeword works nicely. At clvl 80, you'll need about 200 Dexterity for 75% blocking. That sounds like a hella lot (and it is), but the payoff is worth it.

[hexisle]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that putting points into telkinesis can reduce the amount of mana taken when using energy shield. Can someone confirm this please?

[adeyke]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that putting points into telkinesis can reduce the amount of mana taken when using energy shield.  Can someone confirm this please?
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For every point of damage the ES absorbs, you lose (32 - base points in telekinesis) / 16 mana. So without any points, it'd be 2 mana per damage absorbed, while with telekinesis maxed, it'd be .75 mana per damage absorbed.

[Occhidiangela]

For every point of damage the ES absorbs, you lose (32 - base points in telekinesis) / 16 mana.  So without any points, it'd be 2 mana per damage absorbed, while with telekinesis maxed, it'd be .75 mana per damage absorbed.
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The first time I walked through this synergy, it struck me as a method by which to build a mana heavy Tank Sorceress. I could find no other good reason for that synergy, other than to give folks reasons to invest in TK and allow those obsessed with Energy Shield to get more out of it.

For a Melee Sorceress, it can be a good option over the cold Armors, however, part of the Melee Sorc concept includes finding ways to not get hit. To each his own.

The problem for a Sorceress and ES, as I see it, is that if you invest in that Synergy, you rob yourself of a considerable amount of offensive capability in the end game, which the introduction of immunities and the boost in HP that went along with that requires. This brings me to a design irritant, more for SP issues than where you can team up and get player to player synergy benefits.

RANT FOLLOWS.

I understand why Chain Lightning is a prereq for Thunderstorm, but I do not get the Chain Lightning prereq for defensive Lighting skills. Wasted points, illogical relationships.

Cold Tree dependencies make enough sense to me to pass muster.

Fire Tree . . . I get the fireball-firebolt pre requ for Hydra -- even though Hydra is a summoned critter -- since I recall Guardian being Firebolt Dependent in Diablo I. (Uh, this is a new version of the game of Diablo II.) But I do not see a fireball prereq Enchant.

Also, ???? on on the need for Blaze, Firewall, Inferno to pre req Meteor?

Wall Skills versus Ball skills.

Amazons.

Cold Arrow for Guided Arrow? Pointless. Magic Arrow there already.

Multi Shot for Exploding Arrow? No. Magic Arrow, yes. This is evidence yet again that when Synergy was implemented, the interdependencies of the skill trees were overlooked.

Dodge, Avoid, Evade? Pre req for Valk? While at base I find it gratuitous, now that the synergy from those skills give the Valk added defensive features, it makes the summoned warrior more like a good melee zon, so, bugs/features in Dodge etc aside, I get the logic.

Lgt Bolt a pre req for Charged Strike?

The tapping into electric bolts -- HEY! Dudes! Power Strike is entry level electrical damage in melee line, those two points are pointless. Since I tend to make Lgt and Poison Javazons, due to personal preference, I don't mind personally, but the logic is thin. Missile Versus Melee Specialization issues.

AssassinS

Neglect for theme requires Wake of Fire as a prereq for Blade Fury. Pointless. Trap tree otherwise logical progressions in prereqs, won't comment on synergy issues as pre reqs are the real issue here.

Phoenix Strike is aligned with Tiger Strike, a Physical Damage skill, and not the elemental blade skills? If TS is NOT a prereq for the other charge up skills, why is it for Phoenix Strike? Either Make TS the pre req for the elemental tree, logic being "this is the proto charge up skill," or move Phoenix Strike over to where it belongs. Consistency, please?

Necros? Curses. I never met a curse I didn't like

Still uncertain why Weaken Terror and Decrepify are prereq's for Lower Resist -- The logic does not hold.

Amp being the prereq for all "weakening" curses is logical. However, it would make more senst to me to see Iron Maiden and Life Tap in the middle and move Lower Res over to the "theme" family of weakening curses on the right side. Then, move Terror to move left, as it is an AI changing curses like Confuse, Attract, Dim Vision.

What were they thinking?

Why is Bone Spear a pre req for a defensive spell, Bone Prison? Bone Armor, Wall, prison is a logical progression. Leave the decision on O versus D to the player. Poison and bone otherwise make sense.

Why are Golems required Revives? Created versus "raised from death" theme. Bah.

Why are Golems the sole pre req for Summon Resistance? To force people to play with Golems? To force non specialization? The synergy system is hand made to force specialization. Summon Res, IMO, should be like Salvation: stand alone at 30. It allows specialization, or generalization, By The Player.

Barbs

Combat Skills: I think I get why Concentrate is a prereq to WW, as your warrior has to "get his mind aligned with his body" to pull off that stunt. Also see the relationship to leap/LA, since it involves extraordinary movement of the body. Thin, but I get it. Barb masteries logical, and Warcries logical enough.

Paladins.

Not sure why Conversion, Sacrifice, Vengeance and Zeal are "related" to Fist of Heaven, which is a casting skill. The lame relationship of "elemental damage" from Vengeance does not wash. I can see the theme of Conversion being a melee skill and related to the left side of the tree, but ?? on mixing spells and melee skills for pre reqs.

I don't see it.

Likewise, how is BH/Holy Bolt a prereq for Holy Shield? The Word Holy? Bah. Leave the Shield and Charge/knockback skills on the right side alone and it makes sense. Shield skills don't need a spell skill as a pre req.

Why is Defiance a pre req for Redemption and Vigor? With four stand alone skills already, why not make 5? It almost seems that "making the page look neat" was part of the goal of the skill tree system.

Druid: Oak Sage a prereq for Dire Wolf? At first bluch, the Dire Wolf gives a synergy boots for life to wolves and bears and the first "Health Magic" is Oak Sage, but then by that logic, the Heart of Wolverine would need to be a pre req for Spirit Wolf, or Spirit Wolf a Pre Req for Heart of Wolverines: +AR and +Damage being the relationship. The logic is not consistent. And by design, Bear is High Life, high defense big dude who gets boosts from Lycanthropy and the wolves. All in all, a pointless prereq. Of course, that spirit is often taken anyway as a party helper, but how about we leave the tailoring to the player!

Which brings me to my favorite "this makes no sense" skill dependency.

Hurricaine and wind/cold spells required for Armageddon, a fire/lava spell, but no fire spell is required for wind or cold. Stupid Dependency. More sense to leave the two trees separate.

END RANT.

Pre synergy days, there were plenty of points to spare in the plethora of one hit wonder builds, so it really did not matter, however, Immunes change the game from a skill, rmoreso that from an equipment, sense. With each point needind to be wisely spent, a bit more thought on Pre Reqs was in order, before the synergy system was implemented.

Don't get me started on charms. :P Another basically good idea run amok.

Occhi

[Chaerophon]

WOW. That's a lot to get off your chest at this stage in the game! :D

[Occhidiangela]

WOW.  That's a lot to get off your chest at this stage in the game! :D
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I was bumbling through an idea for a variant team, and in doing so took a good hard look at skill tree themes for all classes.

Thanks for taking to the time to read my "it's about a year and a half too late" rant, which would have been ignored anyway, since the 1.10d "beta" was hardly a beta worth the name. Oh well. Being Variant Scum, most of those issues don't end up yielding much difference to my play . . . but themes need consistency.

Occhi

[ICanChangTheWorLd]

:shuriken: at lease 800 mana....as a Sor....that my view!.....