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Greetings Lurkers!
I am about to start building myself a new pc and would like to know a little about the hardware I am considering. First off, I have always used IDE hard drives and would like to know the diferences between IDE and SATA. The SATA drive I am considering is OEM and says it requires and additional power adapter. What does this mean? Secondly the motherboard I am getting (ABIT NF7-S v2) has onboard SATA/RAID. Is this some type of controller? And if so is it wise to use the onboard controller? Thats about all I have to ask at the moment. For those of you curious as to the systems specs they are as follows:
ABIT NF7-S v2 motherboard
AMD Athlon XP 3000+ (400mhz fsb)
Volcano 12 HSF
512mb (2x256) Kingston Hyper-X PC3200
Seagate 80GB (either SATA or IDE haven't decided)
ATI Radeon 9800pro
52x CD-ROM (may also get a CD-RW)
17" CRT monitor
420watt PSU (comes with the RAIDMAX case)
3 80mm case fans
I will use the onboard audio as I really have no need for a fancy sound card. The setup I currently use takes advantage of the on board audio and it sounds great. (of course the stereo system I have hooked to it is the main reason :P )
Nomad25055 :D
R.I.P. Pete! I can't believe you're gone. 
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Or, for $110 more
GIGABYTE "GA-K8S760M" SiS760 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket 754 CPU - $105 (vs $64)
AMD Athlon 64 3000+, 512KB L2 Cache, 64-bit Processor - $211 (vs $140)
With one drive there will be little difference between 7200 rpm IDE and 7200 rpm SATA. If you wanted to get two drives and configure into a Raid 0 config, the above Mobo supports the leading edge for SATA performance.
”There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio.
![[Image: yVR5oE.png]](http://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/329/yVR5oE.png) ![[Image: VKQ0KLG.png]](http://i.imgur.com/VKQ0KLG.png)
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If you're going with an 80GB drive (or two), pick up a Western Digital "Special Edition" drive. 7200rpm, 80GB, and a juicy 8MB cache, which does make quite a difference. I managed to nab one for $67 during a one-day sale on NewEgg; I believe they typically retail for about $80 at NewEgg.
ArrayPaladins were not meant to sit in the back of the raid staring at health bars all day, spamming heals and listening to eight different classes whine about buffs.[/quote]
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Thanks for the suggestions but my mind has already been made up. The reason I asked about SATA is because I am thinking of getting another hard drive of the exact same model. I have heard that 2 SATA drives in RAID 0 give much better performance. But as I have said I don't know much if anything about SATA or RAID. And as for the hard drive it is a Seagate 80gb 7200rpm with 8mb cache (76$ @ newegg).
R.I.P. Pete! I can't believe you're gone.
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07-04-2004, 03:08 AM
(This post was last modified: 07-04-2004, 03:08 AM by Kevin.)
Nomad25055,Jul 3 2004, 09:45 PM Wrote:I have heard that 2 SATA drives in RAID 0 give much better performance. But as I have said I don't know much if anything about SATA or RAID. RAID 0 really doesn't make much of a difference on a desktop system. Server environment is a different story, but on the desktop it doesn't mean much of anything.
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.html?i=2101 if you want to see a review on it.
As for everything esle, I stay out of that on message boards ARS, Anand, Tom's and countless others do a good job of sizing things up. Face to face is a different story, but I don't mess with it in a text only medium anymore.
---
It's all just zeroes and ones and duct tape in the end.
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07-04-2004, 02:07 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-04-2004, 02:17 PM by kandrathe.)
I figured you were pretty set on the Athlon XP. The only reason I suggested going to Athlon 64 is that if you will regret anything in 6-12 months it will be the software that is coming out to use a 64 bit architecture.
It depends on the SATA architecture. Many times the underlying controller configuration is still IDE, with a SATA interface layer added. Raid 0 will give you performance improvements on reading large amounts of data. Also there are big gains if the hardware is designed to do simultaneous reads. The mobo level Raid that I use is Raid 1 (mirroring) with 74GB Raptors.
For server performance, while SATA is interesting for network storage devices, Ultra320 SCSI with 5 or more drives is still the preference for most.
”There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio.
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Gnollguy:RAID 0 really doesn't make much of a difference on a desktop system. Server environment is a different story, but on the desktop it doesn't mean much of anything.
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.html?i=2101 if you want to see a review on it.
Wow, that was a pretty useless test that AnandTech did. The only RAID 0 configuration that they tested was with the very high-performance WD Raptor II drives. If you're looking to marginalize the effects of performance enhancements, that's the way to do it. Kinda like boosting the speed of a dragster.
If their test would have tested the drives that most people buy, i.e. WD Caviar etc., in a RAID 0 configuration it would have been a useful test.
The article does make the valid point that RAID 0 does reduce your reliability, since both drives must work in order to access any data.
They don't mention that the main plus for RAID 0 today is because it is essentially a zero-cost feature on a common configuration. That is, an i865 (or i875) motherboard, and a matched pair of drives, about does it.
I would admit that I would be unlikely to use RAID 0 for myself, since I put a high value on reliability. I don't even overclock. :)
-rcv-
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Quote:Greetings Lurkers!
First off, I have always used IDE hard drives and would like to know the diferences between IDE and SATA. The SATA drive I am considering is OEM and says it requires and additional power adapter. What does this mean?
SATA is an evolution of IDE / SCSI. If you don't go SATA, you'll regret it in 3 months - tops. Go SATA. It's the future of drives, and you will NOT be disappointed. All that "additional" power adapter means is that it requires a special plug, that most new power supplies come with. If you get a new PSU, it's bound to have SATA plugs. I recommend Thermaltake - cheap, reasonably quiet, stable and have SATA plugs.
Quote:Secondly the motherboard I am getting (ABIT NF7-S v2) has onboard SATA/RAID. Is this some type of
controller? And if so is it wise to use the onboard controller?
Yes, it is a controller. Yes, it's wise to use it - you don't have a choice. ;) RAID 0 is not really worth anything, IMO. RAID 1, OTOH, or RAID 0/1, are much better alternatives. RAID is just a nice thing to have; it's far from a necessity. Don't sweat it.
Good luck in your endeavor, and be sure to post if you have any questions!
Roland *The Gunslinger*
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Hmmm, I don't think I will be using RAID but I will be going with the SATA drive. Clicky
And could you describe what the power adapter looks like?
R.I.P. Pete! I can't believe you're gone.
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07-06-2004, 02:34 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2004, 02:38 PM by kandrathe.)
”There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio.
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Hi,
Did some research.
May I make the following suggestions (according to PC Professionell):
Epox EP-8KDA3+ - best AMD motherboard
Western Digital Raptor WD740GD - best hard disc (3.5" Serial-ATA)
Gainward Cool FX Ultra 1800 XP GS - best high end graphic device
Plextor PX-712A - best DVD writer, of course downward compatibility to CD and CD-RW
AOC LM729 - best 17" TFT
Hope this helps. The mentioned devices scored the highest valuations according to the German pc magazine PC Professionell.
Greetings, Fragbait
Quote:You cannot pass... I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor. The Dark Flame will not avail you, Flame of Udun. Go back to the shadow. You shall not pass.
- Gandalf, speaking to the Balrog
Quote:Empty your mind. Be formless, shapeless, like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow, or it can crash! Be water, my friend...
- Bruce Lee
Quote: There's an old Internet adage which simply states that the first person to resort to personal attacks in an online argument is the loser. Don't be one.
- excerpt from the forum rules
Post content property of Fragbait (member of the lurkerlounge). Do not (hesitate to) quote without permission.
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I just want to make a comment regarding Fragbait's list.
Although the only item on the list that I 100% agree with is the Plextor drive, I have a bit of an issue with the hard disk selection.
Although the Raptor WD740GD is a fast drive, the cost is a bit out of line. Here's a comparison, prices are Canadian wholesale from today:
WD 74GB 10000RPM SATA (U150) 8M - RAPTORS SERIES $267.00 (the pick)
WD 250Gb 7200rpm 8MB U150 SATA (#2500JD) $239.00 (comparable price, almost 3 times the storage)
WD 80Gb 7200rpm IDE 8M U150 SATA (#800JD) $92.00 (comparable size, close to one third the cost)
WD 160Gb 7200rpm IDE 8M SATA U150 (#1600JD) $138.00 (current best cost per storage unit)
Okay. My pick here for overall cost and performance is the Caviar 250 Gig. I haven't seen the benchmarks lately, but generally you can figure that a larger capacity drive will see real-world performance benefit because there is simply more data passing under the heads per revolution. I suspect that may bring the performance up to where it won't be far off from the Raptor. And, besides being almost triple the storage capacity, it's cheaper.
If they really, REALLY, want to pick based primarily on performance, they would have gone with one of the 15,000 RPM, U320 SCSI drives. The cost would be higher, but the performance would be a lot better.
If I was laying out a system where the storage capacity is not a real concern, that is, 73 gig was plenty; and I really needed to kick up the drive performance without spending too much, I would probably use the Raptor. That would be an unusual situation, though.
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Thanks kandrathe! Very helpful indeed, although the hard drive you linked too has 2mb buffer where as the one I linked too has 8mb, but they are the same model number <_<. And Fragbait I appreciate your suggestions but I have already picked out what I want. After this new one I'm building starts to get old I will probly use suggestions from you and others like you and then make my own decision from the provided info to build a computer. Who knows, maybe my next computer will be an AMD Dual Core :D
Nomad25055 :rolleyes:
R.I.P. Pete! I can't believe you're gone.
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Hi,
I did some more research, and this is what I came up with:
(you have to factor in the course of ⬠against $)
hard drive (3.5" E-IDE):
------------------------------
1.) Western Digital Caviar WD2500BB - 80.8 out of 100 @ 195â¬
2.) Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 Plus ST3160023A - 78.9 out of 100 @ 110â¬
3.) Samsung Spinpoint P80 SP1614N - 78.8 out of 100 @ 105â¬
hard drive (3.5" Serial-ATA):
-----------------------------------
1.) Western Digital Raptor WD740GD - 93.7 out of 100 @ 220â¬
2.) Maxtor Diamondmax Plus 9 6Y160M0 - 76.2 out of 100 @ 115â¬
3.) Hitachi Deskstar 7K250 HDS722516VLSA80 - 73.1 out of 100 @ 120â¬
hard drive (3.5" External):
---------------------------------
1.) Western Digital WD2500B007RNE - 91.5 out of 100 @ 295â¬
2.) Western Digital Media Center - 88.9 out of 100 @ 310â¬
3.) Maxtor Personal Storage 5000DV T01P120 - 74.0 out of 100 @ 130â¬
hard drive (2.5" E-IDE):
------------------------------
1.) Hitachi Travelstar 7K60 HTS726060M9AT00 - 85.4 out of 100 @ 200â¬
2.) Seagate Momentus ST94811A - 76.1 out of 100 @ 110â¬
3.) Fujitsu MHT2060AH - 72.0 out of 100 @ 165â¬
Hope this helps. All tests performed by PC Professionell.
Greetings, Fragbait
Quote:You cannot pass... I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor. The Dark Flame will not avail you, Flame of Udun. Go back to the shadow. You shall not pass.
- Gandalf, speaking to the Balrog
Quote:Empty your mind. Be formless, shapeless, like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow, or it can crash! Be water, my friend...
- Bruce Lee
Quote: There's an old Internet adage which simply states that the first person to resort to personal attacks in an online argument is the loser. Don't be one.
- excerpt from the forum rules
Post content property of Fragbait (member of the lurkerlounge). Do not (hesitate to) quote without permission.
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