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Unique Diablo Killers . . .
03-17-2004, 03:57 AM
Post: #1
Unique Diablo Killers . . .
Every Ironman team should have a "Diablo Killer" identified by the time they reach the Lord of Terror. This item should so increase damage, to hit, blocking, life, or speed of attack (or decrease amount of damage taken) that you are nearly assured of killing the Demon.

Of course all Uniques are a known quantity; when a Unique shows up you pretty much know its characteristics (as opposed to some standard "blue" magic items which can end up being cursed). Since ID scrolls may in short supply by endgame, and many GREAT Uniques are high qlevel items, it would be great to know exactly which Unique item(s) should be identified that will give a party member an edge in killing Lord of Terror. In other words, to know just which Unique item(s) earn the opprobrium "Diablo Killers".

Now, some background. The "tests" for the Diablo Killer will use a level 22 Warrior since the Warrior is fairly assured of being clevel 22 by the time you clear dlevel 16 with a three-man team. This warrior will have put all lups into Dex until it maxxed, and then all other lup points into Str to increase damage/stun. (So, this warrior will have Dex 60, Str 95, and Life 112.) Since you cannot assume that you've found "stat-adder" Shrines in the game, none will be used for this Warrior.

We only tested items that can actually be found in Multi-player Normal games: so, no Mangler (cannot be found at all), no Sharp Beak/Helm of Sprits/ Bloodslayer (cannot be found in Normal Games), and no Butcher's Cleaver (is a Single Player item).

Also, since ID scrolls are often in short supply in an IM game, we will identify ONE (and ONLY ONE) Unique item and give it to the Warrior to use. If it is a two-handed weapon, we're done. If it is a one-handed weapon, then the Warrior also gets to use a basic, non-magical Large Shield (some sort of shield usually drops every game). If the Unique ided is a body armor or hat, then the Warrior will be given a plain bastard sword and plain Large Shield also. If the Unique is itself a Shield, the Warrior gets a vanilla bastard sword to go with it. Since Normal Diablo’s to hit % is so great AND you are never assured great armor drops, the Warrior will be wearing no other armor (FPM, Great Helms, Tower Shields, etc. are all out!). He's nearly naked! But he IS tucked into a corner so Diablo’s knockback is nullified.

As with any good IM team, you've been saving your heal potions, and the warrior will be allowed a total of 16 potions to use: 13 small and 3 large reds.

Finally, this Warrior will be going SOLO versus Diablo, because you can never be assured that any of the other team members has survived to reach endgame!

Under these circumstances, we found and fought Normal solo Diablo's ten times using each of the Uniques listed below. The test results are presented. Any items which in ten tests kills Diablo SIX or more times will be claimed to be a DIABLO KILLER!

But to test yourself RIGHT NOW, try to think of which Unique items YOU believe will earn the moniker "Diablo Killer". And be warned, there was indeed one Unique item that DID help this Warrior kill Diablo TEN out of TEN tries! Which one do you think it was? Can you guess?

You might be surprised . . . .

Take the time to look at a Uniques list, make your own predictions, and off we go!

TEST BATCH ONE: Stonecleaver, Hellslayer, Wicked Axe, Cranium Basher
TEST BATCH TWO: The Grizzley, Rod of Onan, Messerschmidt's Reaver
TEST BATCH THREE: Bonesaw, Executioner's Blade, Gryphon’s Claw, Lightsaber, Shadowhawk
TEST BATCH FOUR: Baranar's Star, The Celestial Star, Schaeffer's Hammer, Falcon’s Talon
TEST BATCH FIVE: Doombringer, Gnarled Root, Civerb's Cudgel, The Grandfather
TEST BATCH SIX: Scavenger's Carapace, Demonspike Coat, Sparking Mail
TEST BATCH SEVEN: Fool's Crest, Royal Circlet, Overlord's Helm, Gotterdammerung

**********

(Be it noted: there was an observer in each game using a third-party program that allowed that person to view Diablo's remaining hit points during each battle. This person was also the "chase car" that led Diablo to the level 22 warrior for the test to begin. This person took absolutely no part in the combat itself -- teleporting away to a distance -- but did observe and record Diablo's hit points remaining in each test. FYI it takes 33 damage to stun Normal Diablo.)

**********

(continued)
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03-17-2004, 03:59 AM
Post: #2
Unique Diablo Killers . . .
Unique Diablo Killers (cont.), the actual reports

**********

TEST BATCH ONE: Stonecleaver, Hellslayer, Wicked Axe, Cranium Basher

Stonecleaver: doing damage 32-50
Life remaining in Diablo: WIN, 1270, 1073, 1472, 1054, WIN, 390, 614, 640, 561

Hellslayer: doing damage 42-72
Life remaining in Diablo: 726, 1096, 899, WIN, 1166, 654, 642, WIN, 1183, WIN

Wicked Axe: doing damage 26-36; having -6dfe
Life remaining in Diablo: 1169, 1443, 1366, WIN, 1247, 1250, 1349, 1619, 1299, 1313

Cranium Basher: doing damage 50-64
Life remaining in Diablo: 991, 1580, 1331, 1006, 978, 1351, 1178, 1080, 1225, 1313

Test Summary: No Diablo Killers in the bunch.

Stonecleaver recorded two wins versus Diablo, while Hellslayer recorded three, showing that it could be done. However, the lack of blocking meant the Warrior could not dodge ANY of Diablo's attacks, and overall our IMer died much more often than Diablo did. The Cranium Basher, even with its huge damage, never killed Diablo. Not even once!

The Wicked Axe was a real disappointment. It was hoped that the -6dfe would somehow make the Warrior last longer in the fight. But the -10 Vitality actually made the Warrior expire faster than either of the other two axes! Each combat using the Wicked Axe was over in less than 12 seconds (even with the Warrior drinking like a fish!), while the other axes might draw the combat out to even 20 seconds! And in nine tries the Wicked Axe never got Diablo's remaining life below 1000 hit points. Sheesh!

**********

TEST BATCH TWO: The Grizzley, Rod of Onan, Messerschmidt's Reaver (Ah, some BIG guns!)

The Grizzley: damage done 49-73
Life remaining in Diablo in ten tests: 1530, 1456, 1380, 1087, 1054, 1238, WIN, 1380, 1550, 1125

Rod of Onan: damage done 38-54 + the summoned Golem
Life remaining in Diablo: 1500, 1250, 1666, 1373, 1070, 1474, 1600, 1188, 1561, 1484

Messerschmidt's Reaver: damage done 73 - 127
Life remaining in Diablo: sub-900, 746, 1418, 1450, 1396, 1666, 1139, 1574, 423, 1260

Test Summary: Not a Diablo Killer in the group!

Even with its tremendous damage and knockback, the Grizzley failed. When the Warrior knocked Diablo back without the ability to block apocalypse -- the Grizzley being two-handed -- this proved more of a liability than an asset, as Diablo could then damage the Warrior (via apoc) while the Warrior could not damage a knocked-back Diablo!

Even with a helper -- the summoned Golem -- Diablo shredded the Warrior who was using the Rod of Onan. The Golem never lasted longer than a single Diablo apoc attack (quite often the Golem exploded before the battle was even joined), and the Warrior was dead meat as soon as the in-fighting began. Not a single win!

But the real disappointment was the Messy's Reaver. NOT ONE WIN! Even with the tremendous damage it does, the -50 life it has makes the Warrior a paper tiger. The battle was ALWAYS over in ten seconds or less, and the Warrior was drinking every 1/2 second or so.
Bummer!

(What is really interesting is that two of the "lesser" weapons -- the Stonecleaver and Hellslayer -- were actually more successful at defeating Diablo than either The Grizzley or Messy's Reaver! The extra life made the warrior last longer, and allowed for more measured potion drinking.)

**********
So, curious yet? All the great two-handed Unique weapons were failures! The Diablo Killer must have been a single handed weapon, right? Have you made your prediction?

**********

TEST BATCH THREE: Bonesaw, Executioner's Blade, Gryphon's Claw, Lightsaber, Shadowhawk

Bonesaw: doing damage 34-45
Life remaining in Diablo in ten tests: 1243, 855, 383, 476, 812, 951, 1112, 1080, 1342, 1245

Executioner's Blade: doing damage 30-40
Life remaining in Diablo: 1520, 911, 1217, 915, 1257, 884, 1059, 982, 1430, 990

Gryphon's Claw: doing damage 28-36
Life remaining in Diablo: 1154, 1489, 1170, 1495, 1079, WIN, 1373, 1471, 1433, 1351

Lightsabre: doing 21-28 damage
Life remaining in Diablo: 1040, 1182, 1246, 1181, 1109, 1190, 990, 1089, 1215, 1175

Shadowhawk: doing 24-32 damage
Life remaining in Diablo: 1087, 1394, 1303, 1087, 1123, 1425, 1021, 1221, 1254, 1163

Test Summary: Not a Diablo Killer in the bunch.

Of all these Unique weapons, only the Gryphon's Claw scored a win versus Diablo, and only ONE TIME in ten tries! The other weapons failed utterly -- no wins whatsoever! Although some of Diablo's attacks could be blocked and the fights were lengthy, the Demon Lord simply damaged the Warrior faster and more severely than the Warrior could in return. Rats!

**********

TEST BATCH FOUR: Baranar's Star, The Celestial Star, Schaeffer's Hammer, Falcon's Talon

Baranar's Star: doing damage 21-38
Life remaining in Diablo: 1340, WIN, 770, 894, 1119, 892, 1066, WIN, 931, 1220

The Celestial Star: doing damage 32-42
Life remaining in Diablo: 882, WIN, 942, 1110, 1312, 925, 1105, WIN, 1014, 1134

Schaeffer's Hammer: doing damage 20-20
Life remaining in Diablo: 883, 1356, 746, 939, WIN, 1094, WIN, 847, 110, WIN

Falcon's Talon: doing damage 23-25
Life remaining in Diablo: 147, 1081, 487, WIN, 506, 95, 403, WIN, WIN, 837

Test Summary: not a Diablo Killer in the bunch, but some interesting results.

Not bad! Baranar’s and the Celestial Star each defeated Diablo TWICE, while -- whodathunkit? -- Schaeffer's Hammer killed Diablo three times as did the Falcon's Talon!!! With both Schaeffer's and the Talon's puny, non-stunning damage, we weren't expecting this test result at all! And the Talon was the only +Dex adders in the bunch! Really gets you to thinking!

TEST BATCH FIVE: Doombringer, Gnarled Root, Civerb's Cudgel, The Grandfather. Oh yeah, the NASTIES!

Doombringer: doing 40-71 damage
Life remaining in Diablo: WIN, 1020, 1122, 847, 837, 1331, WIN, 853, 1049, 965

Gnarled Root: doing 32-44 damage
Life remaining in Diablo: 148, 260, WIN, WIN, WIN, WIN, 328, 168, WIN, 214

Civerb's Cudgel: doing 21-28 damage tripled
Life remaining in Diablo: 1506, 641, WIN, 1179, 240, 1277, 348, 532, 1415, 1049

The Grandfather: doing 39-56 damage
Life remaining in Diablo: WIN, 114, WIN, WIN, WIN, 184, WIN, 1039, WIN, WIN

AHA! Finally, a Diablo Killer! The Grandfather killed Diablo in 7 out of 10 tries! Gnarled Root came in close with 5 kills in 10 tries, while Doombringer succeeded twice and Civerb's Cudgel once. Surprising that the Cudgel was so ineffective. For Doombringer, the -Life is a real curse on that weapon. The Gnarled did VERY well -- look at the life remaining in Diablo in all the failed attempts! Very close -- imagine if a teammate or two were there helping out!

And finally the Grandfather. The plus to all stats and the plus to hit with tremendous damage made this a real show stopper. It certainly stopped the Lord of Terror often enough!

But where's that Ten-for-Ten Diablo Killer???

**********
Let’s try some armors, shall we?
**********

TEST BATCH SIX: Scavenger's Carapace, Demonspike Coat, Sparking Mail

Scavenger's Carapace: damage done 26-35
Life remaining in Diablo: 591, WIN, 817, 340, WIN, 507, 607, 1280, 493, 271

Demonspike Coat: damage done 29-38
Life remaining in Diablo: 1561, 643, 1154, 1321, 1204, 1296, 475, 1060, WIN, 905

Sparking Mail: damage done 26-35
Life remaining in Diablo: 1156, 1304, 1150, 1167, 1037, 1484, 1254, 1311, 1507, 1228

No Diablo Killer here, with the Scav's Carapace coming closest with two wins in ten tries. Then DSC with one win in ten tries, and Sparking Mail last without a single recorded win.

TEST BATCH SEVEN: Fool's Crest, Royal Circlet, Overlord's Helm, Gotterdammerung

Fool's Crest: damge done: 26-35
Life remaining in Diablo: 656, 526, WIN, 974, 1008, 1039, 738, WIN, 1083, 1161

Royal Circlet: damage done 29-38
Life remaining in Diablo: 1188, 628, 917, WIN, 940, 1587, 1160, 1611, 485, 161

Overlord's Helm: damage done 31-40
Life remaining in Diablo: 1051, 389, 345, 1555, 830, 855, 1355, WIN, 528, 942

Gotterdamerung: damage done 31-40
Life remaining in Diablo: WIN, WIN, WIN, WIN, WIN, WIN, WIN, WIN, WIN, WIN

MAN O MAN! Check out that Gott! Everyone complaining about the negative light radius and the all resists falling to zero -- then it cleans Diablo's clocks! If any Ironman team gets this item, ID it for the final battle with the Dark Lord for sure! But the RC and the Overlord's -- what disappointments! Neither one of them seems quite able to take the Demon Lord's measure. We were thinking the Overlords would be a shoo-in, too! Ah well. And good grief -- look at that Fool's Crest! It killed Diablo twice! It faired better than either the RC or the Overlord's Helm! Go figure! (Well, that +100 life made the warrior a heck of a lot harder to kill, and made drinking a lot less hurried an affair.)

UNTESTED ITEMS AND WHY:

Blackoak Shield: merely equal or inferior to the Royal Circlet in every statistic, and the Royal Circlet failed, so . . .
Leather of Aut: see above.
Vanilla Bastard Sword: see above.
Vanilla Great Axe: merely equal to or inferior to Stonecleaver in every statistic, and Stonecleaver failed.
Celestial Axe: see Vanilla Great Axe.
Vanilla Two-handed Sword: see Vanilla Great Axe
Vanilla Great Sword: see Vanilla Great Axe
Hammer of Jholm does less damage than Stonecleaver (27-42) and has a smaller to hit adder (+15%) and no +30 hit points, so it is inferior to Stonecleaver in every way and need not be tested.

So there you have it, the test for Unique Diablo Killers for the Normal Difficulty Ironman teams and their warrior. Hope you find the info useful.

Attika and Sabra (03/2004)
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03-17-2004, 07:22 AM
Post: #3
Unique Diablo Killers . . .
Amazing test as always, especially with the IM tournament about.

I'm amazed that the Grandfather and Gnarled Root (spiked club version, I presume) were more successful than CC. I've always thought highly of CC, but it looks like it only becomes the great weapon that it is at higher levels when you do more base damage and have a higher chance to block. I suppose that was what made it so ineffective.

As for Gotty, it's always been a great helm for melee. Just irreplaceable.

Too bad that the two most successful items are that rare. But still, Gnarled Root and CC are good as well, and would definitely fare much better with +dex items which do drop fairly regularly in IM games. Your test was completely on the worst-case scenario side, since the warrior had no jewelry or magic items. I always find some stat or life adders, which would enable CCertain items to dispose of Diablo more frequently. But still, it's great to know which items are more likely to bring you that elusive IM victory.

Thanks again for this test.

BTW, have you thought about your excuse to not include the TFOS? :)

"My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes."
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03-17-2004, 12:29 PM
Post: #4
Unique Diablo Killers . . .
Hi, Yogi:

Attika's Chase Car, Bean Counter and Wall Jumper Extraordinaire reporting in here.

Yes it was the spiked club version of Gnarled Root.

We got quite a few surprises while we were doing these tests. I know that for me the biggest one of them was how well Schaeffer's Hammer & Falcon's Talon performed. Since all I had to do was rustle up D. and hop over a wall to get out of Attika's way, before emerging to produce the final HP count on TDL, I had a lot of time to appreciate these fights on a different level. That was mainly the level of how long the battles lasted. With Schaeffer's, those fights went on for a long, long time.

One of the things that stuck with me in all these tests is how many really great Unique items there are for use by The Executioner in an IronMam game. We found plenty of those, and I encourage anyone who reads this write up with an eye to IM play to take note of them.

Great write up, Att!

Attika and I would like to thank Lemmy for making a special mod for us that produced herds of Diablos on dlvl 5, so that we didn't have to recreate our games and fight all the way down to 16 every time Attika managed to polish off TDL.

[Image: Sabra%20gold%20copy.jpg]

I blame Tal.

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03-17-2004, 12:42 PM
Post: #5
Unique Diablo Killers . . .
This is definately the best strategy post that was posted on any Diablo forum in the last months, maybe even years.

I really thought CC would have been a definite Diablo Killer. That GD did so well did not surprise me, though.

Very interesting results. Thanks, you two.

Attika, Sabra - will you be playing the BoD tournament ? My team needs some competition ;)
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03-18-2004, 12:03 AM
Post: #6
Unique Diablo Killers . . .
Hi, Moldran! Boy, it's been a long time.

Attika and I have already communicated about the tournament and we would love to play. I've written to a terrific choice for a Mage, and I hope he will respond affirmatively. <crosses fingers> Hope we can pull this off!

Are you the Rogue on your team?

Be well, Moldran, and I'll see you in Hell.

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I blame Tal.

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11-26-2008, 02:38 PM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2009 05:05 AM by weakwarrior.)
Post: #7
Unique Diablo Killers . . .
How does the Gotterdamerung do if you do not identify it?
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11-26-2008, 05:17 PM
Post: #8
Unique Diablo Killers . . .
Quote:How does the Gotterdamerung do if you do not identify it?
You do realize this a four year old thread?

"What contemptible scoundrel stole the cork from my lunch?"

-W.C. Fields
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11-27-2008, 07:04 AM
Post: #9
Unique Diablo Killers . . .
Quote:Aye. Yet some of us are still lurking around.
Nice to know.:)

"What contemptible scoundrel stole the cork from my lunch?"

-W.C. Fields
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12-01-2008, 04:33 PM
Post: #10
Unique Diablo Killers . . .
Quote:You would likely score no wins at all.

The only benefit you get from an unid'd Gotterdamerung is AC. While 60 AC is massive for a helm, against (normal) Diablo your AC is basicly meaningless. Simply because his Tohit is enormous.

In the test results is included Demonspike Coat, the unique Full Plate Mail. With an AC value of 100 and no drawbacks amongst its other mods, it clearly outdoes an unid'd Gotter. Yet it only scores one win.

Still not convinced ? Look at the numbers :

Warrior level = 22. Dex = 60. AC = Dex/5 + AC(items) = 12 + 60 + 10(max AC large shield) = 82.

Diablo level = 30. Base Tohit = 220 (!). Diablo's Tohit with melee = 30 + Base Tohit + 2 * (mlvl - clvl) = 30 + 220 + 2 * 8 = 266.

Chance Diablo hits the Warrior = 266 - 82 = 184. This is capped at 100%. In other words : auto-hit. Diablo will never miss.

You can see that one needs a heap of AC to make a difference. It takes at least 167 AC to reduce Diablo's chance-to-hit to below 100%. Also, the maximum useful AC is 236 as the auto-hit on dlvl 16 is 30% (this is the minimum chance-to-hit of any monster, regardless of your AC).

Note that due to a bug, Diablo's Tohit on Nightmare and Hell is much lower. If we'd magically transport the same clvl 22 Warrior to face off with Nightmare Diablo, there would only be a 38% chance to be hit by the Dark Lord. In Hell, the chance would still be 100%, but this comes mostly from the level difference.

The secret to beat Diablo in Ironman is : block and to-hit + enough damage to stun. Thus, you can see why the identified Gotterdamerung makes such a difference : it's not the AC, but the +20 to all attributes.

EDIT : almost forgot : there is no reason to leave the Gotterdamerung unid'd against Diablo since none of his attacks (including Apocalypse) do any magic/fireghtning damage.
Aye. Yet some of us are still lurking around.;)

Cheers,
Gil.

Good to know and thanks for the answer. The only reason to leave it unid´d would be if you had 1 scroll and 2 uniques, but as you point out the Gotter unid´d is basically useless at that level.
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01-07-2009, 02:55 PM
Post: #11
Unique Diablo Killers . . .
I presume this would be a disaster, but what about the protector with it's 40 healing charges? Or does it have fewer when found? Anyway, as long as the mage was alive at the time it is found he could recharge most of those/if you found a stone shrine.
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04-01-2009, 05:12 PM
Post: #12
Unique Diablo Killers . . .
There were some very enlightening posts by a user named Gillias, the first of which is quoted in one of my previous posts in this thread (it was one of my first posts and I didn't know how to cut out the quote from my reply - now I'm glad I didn't). They have all disappeared. It feels like I'm in a George Orwell book and my quote of Gillias's post is evidence which the government forgot to eradicate.
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04-01-2009, 06:19 PM
Post: #13
Unique Diablo Killers . . .
Hi,

Quote:There were some very enlightening posts by a user named Gillias, the first of which is quoted in one of my previous posts in this thread (it was one of my first posts and I didn't know how to cut out the quote from my reply - now I'm glad I didn't). They have all disappeared. It feels like I'm in a George Orwell book and my quote of Gillias's post is evidence which the government forgot to eradicate.
I looked Gillias up in the member directory and all that seems to be left is his birth date. It indicates he was active earlier today. He doesn't appear to have been banned. Strange. There might be some glitch in the site software. You might want to report this on the Suggestion Box forum to bring it to the mods attention -- your call.

--Pete


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