Any other viable pally...?

[ima_nerd]

The only pallys (pallies?) I see nowaday are hammerdins. I see a few others, but they're all low clvl. The only high clvl pallys/ies i see are hammerdins. Yes, hammerdin is probably the most powerful build of the game, but...is there anything else out there for a paladin? I mainly want him for PvP, but still be able to hang when doing PvM. Any suggestions? I really don't know much about paladins and I guess I should research a little bit before posting, but what can I say, I'm lazy. I have access to some pretty good gear also, I have two filthy rich friends and I'm also beginning to collect my fortune so I can get almost anything (within reason). Thanks.

[Bob the Beholder]

Of course there are more viable. I've got a Zealot with horrible equipment, low vitality, with a supreme case of under-leveled, and he's still making decent headway through Hell.

I'd think a vengeance paladin would also work, and probably a holy shock paladin. Ranger probably would as well.

[Wyrm]

In terms of raw killing power, no, nothing comes close to the hammerdin (even though I was stupid and got my hc ladder one killed by a cursed + fire enchanted one-hit-killer in nightmare). For pvp Charge works well if you don't go against people (as in just about everyone) with tons -damage% (Charge gets ~+1300% ed with synergies, then add in fanat for some serious damage numbers). PvM Charging requires a bit of finesse (hit, back off, repeat).

[ima_nerd]

Hmm...I have no desire to be good at PvM, just to be able to survive while leveling up. So...charge and fanat is good? I'm thinking a polearm/spear weapon might be good because of the range(?). Could you maybe tell me some of the synergies for both of them? Thanks tons.

[Taem]

Glad you asked :D :

>>I had a 86 Zealot/Martyr combo (zeal + Fanatisicm and Sacrifice and all synergies) that died numerous times and was rebuilt in hardcore due mostly to:

1.) fire explosion in nightmare and hell, even with 95% fire resist
2.) iron maiden anywhere in act 5 nightmare and hell
3.) dolls while zealing
4.) hitting non-leechable monsters while using sacrifice

He did exceptionally well in hell and dealt around 2.5k average damage with a socketed Atlantian and I was still using Deaths sash and gloves (can't beat all those bonuses!). I can't recall if that was with or without his Might mercinary's aura.

>>I had a Frost Crusader (Freezadin) up to 74 and died to fire explosion (first time I found out about it actually with this guy. I never rebuilt him, but he did exceptionally well in hell, even thou his damage was a little lower than my zealot. All monsters would be slowed to a crawl and if I also gave him clegaws and socketed my weapon with a saphire, the monsters would be virtual statues.

>>I had an Avenger (vengeance + Convictoin) up to level 84. I stripped him of gear and gave him only points into vitality at around level 32 because I thought this subclass sucked, then I used his aura to help my friends MF and kill bosses. For giggles, I gave him Deaths full set and a few other items and low and behold, he was killing monster >>IN HELL<< in one hit!!! He died shortly after making this discovery... So while I am anxious to rebuild this varient, I was a little leery of his very slow attack speed. Nonetheless, a very strong build at high level (if you can survive to high level).

>>My friend whom I call ELMO, is currently #1 on the hardcore paladin ladder with his Fist of the Heavens paladin. I honestly thought this build was doomed in 1.1, but he says it's alive and well and does an incredable about of damage. I still have no urge to attempt it.

>>As you said, there is the Hammerdin.

>>There is also the Charger as mentioned before my post.

>>The Smiter is NOT a viable build for Hell in 1.1

>>I have NOT tried or heard of anyone trying a Ranger/Shockadin; Firedin; Missionary (throns + conversion); "forgot the name of this one" (Defiance + Holy shield + attack); and the Cleric (which I like to call the undead slayer). Also, there are the non-killing/party-helper builds such as the Medic.

So to answer your question, YES!

[ShadowHM]

:) Check the Amazon Basin's Paladin Forum.

There are people there who have made everything work !

I have two on the grow - one is an Avenger who won't be using Conviction. He will go for maxing the synergies instead.

The other will be a thrower who uses Holy Freeze and Holy Shock - the same benefits of some Ranger builds but with resists. B)

Frankly, niether one is going to be a powerhouse in Hell, but I don't care. They will have style ! And I will have fun. :D

[Nightwind]

i keep forgetting to bookmark the basin.

can you explain the logic in maxing synergies instead of conviction?
sancturary would be your main aura, right?

conviction dosen't break imune, right?

[Vash]

I believe Conviction does break immunities.

Uhh...Sanctuary? I guess you mean Salvation perhaps?

But even still, if one's goal was to get the most out of the synergies, one should stay away from Salvation. 1 point in salvation gives +2% damage to each element, a 6% total. Whereas each point in the regular resist auras give 8% to their respective elements. The main aura would probably be one of the three resist auras depending on the situation.

[Wyrm]

Is it just me, or did Vengeance deal poison damage once upon a time?

[adeyke]

I think it's just you. Even as early as the 1.00 skills.txt, there's only mention of lightning, fire and cold. I don't think it's ever had poison.

[IKKE]

Well, I have met a smiter once in pvp, he was lvl 60, and i was a lvl 73 baba tanker with storm+corpse etc., over 19000 def and 2700 life, he #$%&ing OWNED me, like 3 hits and i was DEAD!

[ShadowHM]

can you explain the logic in maxing synergies instead of conviction?
sancturary would be your main aura, right?

conviction dosen't break imune, right?

Hi

There are four skills that synergize with Vengeance. Resist Fire, Resist Cold, Resist Lightning and Salvation.

I just want to find out if the notion works that I max the first three synergies and get a Salvation to (with adders) a minimum of slvl 12 to award immunity to elemental damage to the minions of any companions. * I will travel with Salvation up, thus having (I devoutly hope) maxed resistances, even in Hell. (I may well end up dropping a point or three into Conversion, to keep the heat off his "whack them one at a time" self.)

This will allow me to have all other equipment devoted to damage and AR so that the main component of Vengeance (the initial physical hit that generates the elemental damage) can be high enough.

I have no idea whether this will really be viable. But it will be fun trying it, no? There certainly won't be a lot of skill juggling, but he will have to be adept at monster control tactics.


*Druid minions would be nice, eh? A Grizzly that is immune to elemental damage would make a nice tank for this boy. B)

[Assur]

Hi

I'm running a ShockTherapist (aka ShockPala) in Ladder HC, I`ve not yet reached Hell but at the moment he is a nice and fast killer in NM.

Max Holy Shock first, Resist Lightning and Salvation. One point in Vengeance in the beginning for PILI monsters, later maxed Vengeance.

I've got normal equipment, nothing uber, and an act merc 2 with prayer aura who gets the best I can find for him.

On the first weaponslot a very fast weapon (or a sceptre with +skill) and a palashield socketed with perfect diamonds (Holy Shock). On the second weaponslot a high-damage weapon, usually twohanded (Vengeance). Alternatively you could put a throwing weapon in the second slot.

good hunting

[Baajikiil]

I've had a holy shock pally go through hell in 1.10. They are certainly viable. The damage from holy shock is fairly obscene when fully synergized. Obviously lightning immunes are a stumbling block, as is the lack of leach(low physical damage). The lack of high leach can be overcome by having max block and good tactics(don't get surounded), but LIs can be a PITA, mainly leader LIs. Many LIs have relatively low hp, but the occasional LI leader with massive hp can be bad.

For a weapon, I'd suggest a fast one hander, preferably with ITD. Many of the low end unique swords/daggers have ITD, and can last a holy shocker far into his career. Mine still broke out his jeweled Skewer of Krintz sometimes when he was over lvl 75. BTW the ultimate weapon for a Shock zealot is a Crescent Moon phaseblade(assuming you don't a zod rune for BotD). The mods compliment the build exceptionally well.

Against non resistant foes, hell is a breeze. But the downpoint is that as a pally, you are very vulnerable to 1-2 hit kills. My Shocker (HCL) ended up dying in the pit of act1 hell. He was doing pit runs(on his 20th or so), and ran into a fanat pack of bone warriors. That alone is nothing to him(he had about 1.3K life, and damage reduced by 70 as well as max block/resists), and I waded right in after checking the boss's other mods.

As I was slaughtering them, I suddenly took a rough hit; about 2/3 of my life in a single blow and I started to back off, unsure of what was wrong. As I retreated, I noticed a couple arrows coming my way. I hit the rejuvs as fast as I could, got full life, then was slain in 1-3 arrow hits all at once. Apparently there was an archer leader coming up behind the skellys that I didn't notice. The leader was extra strong, and coupled with fanat did a huge amount of damage in just a hit or 2. Piece of advice, a melee pally player has to be very careful, he can be effective, but is in much more danger than say a hammerdin.

[Assur]

I've had a holy shock pally go through hell in 1.10.&nbsp; They are certainly viable.

Hi

Did you have a merc, and if yes which one? Sometimes I just hide behind my merc and let him do the killing :D . As regards Skewer of Krinitz, it's nice but IMHP an upgraded Blood Crescent would also be useful, BTW a ShockPala is one of the few chars for whom a complete Angelic Raiments would make sense!

The really nice thing about Holy Shock is that you get serious damage to your weapon and also get an aera effect.

good hunting

[ima_nerd]

I think I'm going to go with charge/fanat, but what else should I get, should I max all synergies or find some secondary skills? I want to start soon, so some input in the next few days would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Baajikiil]

Did you have a merc, and if yes which one?

Actually, I had a pretty sweet setup, with a holy freeze merc using the unique thresher(casts decrepify;found during a shenk run). When the decrepify goes off, whatever is next to him slows to a crawl, and died very swifty afterward.

As regards Skewer of Krinitz, it's nice but IMHP an upgraded Blood Crescent

Yes, several of the low end uniques can be more useful for a shock pally more than most other chars. In my case, I had decided to put no points into str for my pally. The +10 dex, and more importantly the +10 str on the skewer(as well as ITD and good speed) made it ideal for my needs.

EDIT: pyto

[Olon97]

I have been doing pretty well with a zeal / conviction paladin, although he is the result of finding a lot of decent loot with other characters.

Low level zeal (I think I have around two real points invested) with maxed sacrifice has enough physical damage to provide some life leach when applicable, but I don't rely on leach. I went with a ~120% resist all paladin shield (4 diamonds + automod) which freed up inventory space for some of the nice high level elemental damage charms I had kicking around. I've thrown gore riders into the mix for a little crushing blow & open wounds

Conviction at or slightly below the -150% lower resists cap pretty much negates the need for AR. I'm sure that when I get ahead on the mlevel/clevel curve, I'll be hitting 95% of the time despite having a sub 2k AR (which would normally be abysmall). Exploiting this one-aura-wonder means I'm not switching auras during combat - no matter what.

I'm putting points into the resist element auras to slevel10 to get the passive +5% max resists and for synergy with a low-level vengance, which seems to work a little better against stone skins where crushing blow is totally out of the picture. Regular phys immunes soften up well enough when the decrepify from reaper's toll on my HF merc goes off. If I wasn't sticking with guardian angel for my armor, I would consider taking the resist auras even further.

There is room for a little flexibility with this concept, due to only needing ~22 skill points for primary attack + maxed synergy and another 15-20 in conviction. Those modest goals can be accomplished well before reaching hell difficulty, leaving skill levels for other minor variations. Pump vigor for a high level shopper, be a mini-medic with a little prayer enhanced meditation/salvation between fights, boost max resists with the passives from resistsance auras, or go crazy with the holy shield / defiance synergy for top notch defense #s - all reasonable choices, and in moderation one can do a little "all of the above".

My weapon options are a mid-stat death cleaver, which cost me a couple upper end hellforge runes, and all the parts for a crescent moon phase blade, as yet unassembled. Death Cleaver with a little extra deadly strike from gore riders functions like an upgraded headstriker (i.e. double physical damage almost all the time), except it is faster and has better range.

Partying with sorceresses or elemental druids is slightly annoying. While conviction makes an inventory full of elemental damage charms viable, it makes a true elemental skilled character uber - making my paladin's kill speed feel wimpy in comparison. Running into a dedicated enchantress is rare, but it is a godsend when it happens. :)

Consider an optimal damage scenario, barring an enchantress, and not depending on weapon based elemental damage. Say you have 28 perfect shocking small charms of storms (1-99 lightning damage each, 28-2772 total, 1400 average) and hit a monster with 50 or less lightning resists (-100 lightning resists after conviction) with a 5 frame zeal using a perfect Death Cleaver with "Lo" and Gore Riders (5 attacks per second, 180 avg dmg, 101% deadly strike) and your character has 150 strength (just for an easy number). You're doing 2800 average lightning damage per hit along with 1764 average physical damage per hit (180 * (1+ 2.4 sacrifice + 1.5 strength) * 2 DS), for a total of 22.8k mixed damage per second with a 95% chance to hit anything below your clevel. The maximum possible on a single hit would be 8180 combined damage. That's ignoring extras like decrepify/amp and crushing blow. That's not my setup, and it makes more sense to mix fire/coldghtning charms, but you can see the potential.

If you have the gear, especially lots of good elemental damage charms (dual mod small/large charms with the slevel 65-69 required elemental mods as their prefix - the slevel 89-91 prefixes on small charms are insanely rare but great if you can find them), then give it a shot. I don't do PVP myself, but I would imagine this sort of build may work well against other players in matches played in hell difficulty, but in normal difficulty conviction won't be able to crack other player's resistances as well as you'd like. You also may need to demon limb yourself some AR against players with insanely high defense builds (a 40k def player will still have 3.2k def after conviction is done with them).

[Taem]

I think I'm going to go with charge/fanat, but what else should I get, should I max all synergies or find some secondary skills? I want to start soon, so some input in the next few days would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Charge costs way too much mana at low level and if you have nothing to twink over, you will not be able to use it much until higher level. Instead, focus on maxing it's synergy, Might, with a regular attack and IAS (deaths set comes to mind).

The synergies for charge give +20% damage, whereas charge itself gives 25% damage, so your next focus should be charge, followed by the vigor synergy.

Somewhere along the line, preferable at level 30, you will start investing into fanatisicm. At just level 12, Fanatisicm will do the same amout of damage that your level 20 might does and provide an increase to your attack rate, but the damage bonus isisnt nearly as high as maxing your synergy, so you might save fanatisicm for LAST!

[ima_nerd]

Well, I went with charge/fanat and it's doin pretty good. I'm lvl 49, with (estimated, I don't really remember)18 charge, 16 might, 5 vigor, 4 fanat, 6 prerequisites. Somethin like that. I have griswolds armor, herald of zak, and all else sigon with some crappy +1 skill scepter. On switch for my charge I have spire of honor. My charge is doing 1200-4700 dmg, decent enough to scare my friends lvl 80 hammerdin for a little while (he then proceeded to toss out one hammer, killing me instantly.) Thanks for all the input. BTW...what should I put in the spire of honor, or should I not even bother having it socketed?