My Thoughts & What I Need

[Sword_of_Doom]

Hello everyone, i have remained on the sidelines of all of this for a long time but i feel i need to respond to what is going on. I am by nature very easy going and mellow and do my best to avoid all conflict and drama in life. I play this game because it is FANTASY, FUN and ESCAPE from real life. That being said i would like to respond to some of Bolty's post.

The Lurkers are not a highly regimented, go-go-go don't-play-alts-or-you're-out, you-must-raid-once-a-month-or-you're-out guild.  At the same time, we're a group of people who have now become a real force (over 70 accounts) with a ton of level 60 players.  Those who got to the top first have been waiting patiently for more to arrive so that end-game content can be seen by all-Lurker parties.

I was the first 60 to leave (that after levelling two 60's) in March and it was for the above reason. Lurkers primarily to me have been a group of like minded gamers that share same game etiquette and manners. Many of you are EXCELLENT observers of the game but realistically will never see the 40 man end game content. The 40 man end game content has been designed for elite players with oodles of uninterrupted play. Most normal people do not have 8 hours straight of play time Monday to Sunday. There is NOTHING wrong with that. WoW was designed to be casual and fit a casual players playstyle. It was also designed for the EQ crowd (hardcore raiders) and you will find the leadership of most of the Stormrage raiding guilds are ex EQ players that brought their raiding mentality into WoW. Two developers with WoW, Furor and Tigole, are ex EQ players who were integral in the end game raiding scene with their Guild, Legacy of Steel. LOS was notorious for exploits and pushing the limits of the game.

Bolty you are contradicting yourself in the rest of your rant by the above statement. You are definitely being unclear on what you really want. From my personal perspective, i maintained all my ties with the Lurkers, even though i took one of my characters to a hardcore raiding guild. Realistically, this guild, the Lurkers, is at the same point i was in February. Skan and Flyn have been working their butts off trying to organize large groups to do end game content. Congratulations on getting a full 40 man raiding group into Molten Core but as i understand, you could not handle the beginning pulls. Are we as a Lurker group going to do that once a month and call that seeing the end game content???? Realistically that will be the case.

There is nothing wrong with what has been created by the Lurker Lounge guild concept. To me it never was a guild per se, but a group of like minded players. Lurkers love to explore and talk about the content and take their time.

This guild is incredibly fun to be in, and a real treat to be in parties for.  The difference between playing pickup groups (of which I've been in many, especially when the guild was smaller) and playing in Lurker parties is immense.  So many of us are willing to help out a fellow Lurker in need.

I had the great priviledge of playing with two very distinct and different groups of people. My first group, Flyndar, Tahapenes, Catlyn, Lochnar, and Rylea all began back in November and we did many groupings on our way to level 60. I remember the very first weeks questing with Lochnar in Loch Modan and Redridge Mountains. They were fun and excellent times.

The second group i had the priviledge of spending time with were Grizelle, Abattoir, and NSD (Sommli). I quested with Grizelle in Stranglehorne Vale and did Scarlet Monastery runs with the group. Once they reached 60 i did many instance runs with this group.

I have been able to maintain friendships and fun with a very large group of the present 60's while be able to FULFILL MY GOALS IN THE GAME (raiding the end game content, Molten Core and Onyxia).

When you get a character to 60 and take off for a "more regimented guild," you are taking a giant whizz on everyone else in the guild.  You may say otherwise, but you are basically taking advantage of the hospitality the guild provides.

The use of inflammatory language puzzles me. The people who left tried to do it in a respectful friendly manner. I am not sure why you feel people "are taking a giant whizz on everyone else in the guild." That is strong language that is far from true. This guild has always been about giving and receiving--not vice versa. Everyone in this guild has been wonderfully generous and helpful. I have done dozens and dozens of instance runs that were not of any benefit to me but were to fellow Lurkers.

There is no requirement that one must join a guild to raid with them.  You might say that "it's easier" to do this, and that's true, so by all means go the easy route!  Screw that guild that you had played in on your way up - now that you're established, you don't need them anymore!

This is where the tone of your rant gets nasty and that saddens me greatly. The Lurker Lounge is not a TRUE guild and never will be. Most recognize that and are more than happy with that. A true guild has structure and officers. A true guild has a CEO (for wont of a better word) that organizes daily raids and keeps attendance. Most importantly, a true guild RECRUITS people to join in their likemindedness. Lurkers are a co-operative of friendly, intelligent fun people and i love the Lurkers dearly for this. I have learned much of this game from three people Skandranon, Lissa and mjdoom. They of all the Lurkers have schooled me in the nuances and depths of the game.

People leaving are not "screwing" the guild. This guild has always been what you put in is what you get out of it. By extension you are saying that about me. But i have a long list of people that i have provided gold, materials and products from November to May 13, 2004 for free. I have given much to this guild and truth be told, apart from knowledge, have received very little back. Do i care? NO, NO NO. I love helping and i love giving. I have maintained ties strongly with this guild because i love the people.

Getting to 60 is not the end of the game, it really is the beginning and thats where the Lurker Lounge does not realistically fit people who want to see all the content in the game. Unfortunately, the the Lurker Lounge cannot cater to two sets of people, casual and hardcore. They will always conflict. I would prefer the Lurkers stay the way i have known them, casual, fun and carefree and not force the whole of the Lurkers into something they do not want to be.

It's especially damning when one says that their level 60 is going to join another guild, but their alts will remain Lurkers.  That's even more bloody offensive than if you just quit all your characters, which is what I'D prefer.  Sure, the Lurkers are good enough for your non-60's, but not for your "real" characters.  My response: go do you-know-what with yourself, because I'm not playing with you anymore.

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt on these statements. If you had that attitude in real life, your circle of friends would be just yourself. This is a GAME Bolty, nothing more or less. Why you as the webmaster would create division and animosity for a FANTASY game, boggles my mind????

Our guild is on the brink of serious regular raiding.  We've had learning-experience trips to Molten Core and we have a GIGANTIC guild on the same server that we have a ridiculously friendly relationship with, the Basin.  All it takes is one person to organize it and take the time, and some regular weekly action could be taking place.  Just ONE person to extend the olive branch to the Basin crowd and get things going!  So instead of being part of the solution, you quit and run off somewhere else.  Never mind the efforts of some Lurkers already to get raids going, working very hard to get things established like the MC run done recently.  It's just easier to quit to somewhere else where this is established already instead of helping those you've been playing with for months to get it going here.

Unfortunately, this paragraph is untrue, Bolty. Flyndar and I have tried building an alliance with the Basin since February. I personally have grouped with many Basiners but their mandate is virtually identical to ours. They are a loose coalition of like minded game etiquette people who play casually. Lots of their 60's have left as well. Some of them are in my guild (in Aeternum). If i followed your advice, i would have waited 3 months to die repeatedly in the beginning of the Molten Core. Is that what this group really wants to do?

The bottom line is, i truly do not believe you really understand what time and resources it takes to form a 40 man raiding group to do the high level content. Let me enlighten you and then i want you to respond that the Lurker Lounge is capable of this.

I am in a high end raiding guild, In Aeternum. We have a guild leader and 5 officers. We have a code of conduct and loot distribution guidelines. We have a guildbank and a website. We also keep attendance of all our raiding activity. Our schedule is this.

Monday--WE raid from 6 PM EST to when we finish which usually is 1 AM EST.
Tuesday--off
Wednesday--We raid from 6 PM EST to when we finish
Thursday--Raid from 6 PM EST onwards
Friday--raid from 6 PM onwards
Saturday--raid from 3PM until 1 AM usually
Sunday--off

If you have a family and job, this type of schedule is not realistic and conducive to your health. Most of my guild is made up of 18-24 year college students who have unlimited time at their disposal.

What amazes me is how the people who leave expect that every member of Lurkers is just going to be completely okay with that, hugs and kisses, sad to see you go, etc.  Well, I'm not.  You're offended by what I'm saying?  Tough.  I'm just as offended that when you hit 60 you decide that our group isn't good enough for you.  So be it.

Isn't that what friendship is all about. Do you really treat your friends like that? Can you honestly tell me that once one of friends decides to do something you don't like you exclude them from your life!?!

You can't please everyone in this world, and you're not pleasing me.  I'm not just going to sit here and get crapped on by you, that's all.

This sums it all up. This is all about your FEELINGS Bolty. You have made this personal when that was not necessary or appropriate. Unfortunately because of your standing as the webmaster you have opened a cavern like fissure in people relationships and may have done irrepairable harm to your own website and so called friends. Your position is unusually harsh and insensitive and frankly reprehensible. Shame on you Bolty!

What I'm saying is, don't expect me to be partying with you (or generally acknowledging you) any time soon.

Cheapshot, cheapshot cheapshot. All respect for you and the Lounge is ended by this statement. Until today, i did not dislike a single person in this guild, it is not my nature or disposition. But your classless, insensitive demeaning rant has left a very sour taste in my mouth. YOU HAVE ABUSED YOUR POWER AND INFLUENCE BOLTY!!!!!! You have taken a wonderful concept and idea and ruined it with a personal philosophy that is divisive.



The Lurker Lounge was a fun place and haven to me. That is no longer the case.