What is Occupy Wallstreet?

[FireIceTalon]

Its one big ponzi-scheme system, designed to shell out wage slave after wage slave to create a caste system of serfs and/or indentured servants to fund the war and oil machine, so politicians, bankers/hedge-fund managers, and transnational corporations continue suck the blood of the poor and what is left of the middle class (not much).

You do realize, don't you, that there has never been a time in America's [discovered] history where we haven't "used" a lower class of people to do our dirty work? From the native Americans, to negro slaves, to Mexican immigrants, to exporting business overseas. What your preaching is nothing new. So now the lower class wants to be elitists also with the coming of the twitter age? Well our economy was built on slaves and a lower-class, that much you will have to live with rather you like it or not. Altering that formula can and will result in catastrophic imbalance leading into Communism IMO. There must always be a lower-working class to support a higher-class. It has always been that way throughout history, and will always be that way. Everyone cannot be equal unfortunately, and forcing equality in wage pay, taxes, and other subsidiaries IS the heart and soul of Communism, and we all know how well that works out. Is that really what these Occupy Wallstreet gurus are asking for? Because the more I think about it, the more I read the posts here trying to explain what Occupy Wallstreet is all about, the more that is what it's sounding like. A ploy at equality equating to nothing more than Communism, plain and simple. Am I wrong?

EDIT: Sometimes I rant, and it all sounds good to me in the moment, but after an hour or two, I come back and read what I wrote and realize I was too brash. I apologize FireIceTalon if I came across as such. I was not trying to single you or your opinion out and I am grateful that you shared your example of the Occupy movement with me.

NP, I am the same way when it comes to politics. At heart, I am a w/o any doubt a commie, my signature probably gives that away. But I'm more Marxist in the sense that I am staunch critic of capitalism and the unnecessary inequality it produces, rather than a revolutionary calling for a communist dictatorship by the state, so I don't blindly agree with the Manifesto word for word. It is rather Marx's arbitrary concepts of class consciousness, alienation, materialism, economic determinism, and false consciousness that I am interested in. But that said, my objections to capitalism are FAR more than simple economic principles or inequality, but I won't get into that right now. Regarding the Occupy movement...

I don't get the impression that Occupy Wall Street is even asking for handouts, much less being a Marxist movement (though it can be argued they are an indirect product of some of the concepts of Marxism that I mentioned above). They are, however, extremely upset by the financial bailouts that have shown our system for what it truly is: an oligarchic corporate dictatorship that uses the capitalistic system to privatize profits and socialize losses with working class and middle class taxpayer dollars. This is called FRAUD, and if me or you did it, we'd be in jail in seconds. Yet not a single Banker or hedge fund manager has been arrested yet. Kind of gives one the impression that we have welfare for billionaires, Ayn Rand social darwinism for everyone else, you know? That is one of their primary concerns. Its one thing to have inequality, but its another thing when the top 5% of the population owns more wealth than the bottom 95% combined. We like to think we are a meritocracy, but we are not. While hard work and diligence CAN pay off, the social class you are born into, who you know, and your access to education and other important social and cultural capitals play are much larger role in determining social and economic mobility. The movement wants fairness more than pure equality. In other words, they want millionaires and billionaires to start paying their fair share in taxes and not have some sort of corporate welfare that allows any level of risk in our so-called capitalistic system. And yes, I know the capitalists will argue that what we have now is a perverted form of capitalism, but that will not wash with me. There is no such thing as "good" and "bad" capitalism, it is one or the other depending on your perspective and how you view the world. From my perspective, it can only lead to what we have now, no matter how good it starts, therefore, I reject it. Simply put, capitalism and democracy are an incompatible relationship as I see it. As one of the Rothchilds said, "give me control of a nations wealth, and I care not who makes it laws". There only needs to be a class of indentured servants from the perspective of the wealthy and powerful, because the wealthy and powerful want the slaves to do their work for them but paying them less than what their labor is worth to increase that evil p-word called profits. It is an excuse for them to justify slavery, and nothing more.

They also want political justice. Why should those who have more money to pay and contribute to campaigns have any more political clout than those of us who have to speak at the ballot box, or do as these citizens are, through protest? The Citizens United decision needs to be overturned. Money does NOT equal free speech, and corporations are NOT people. These two things have completely undermined American democracy.

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It's a bunch of cretins who think that they are entitled to free *insert anything here*, without actually working for it or earning it.

They think that to get money or more money, they need to not work or to stop working, start protesting, and convince their friends to do the same, instead of working harder or redoubling their efforts to look for gainful enployement.

Coincidentally, that is also the difference between communists and capitalists.

BTW, I am 100% sure, that many of these people if given power, would kill countless others to enrish themselves.

After all, it's been done before.

So far after doing some more research, I'm in agreement with you, however there are some valid points at the heart of the Occupy movement, mainly separating Government from all forms of the privatized industry, making The Man as transparent as possible. As Kathandrake has pointed out before, I'd even go so far as to remove them from the DMV, Healthcare, all sectors except judicial, foreign policy, and military.**

I think it is equally as important to give more power back to the states and to take it away from the Feds. Each state needs their own militia back as per the Constitution, not just a reserve corp the feds can use at their whim! Each state should be able to make their own laws, such as California's medical marijuana laws. Each state should have the power they were granted in the original Constitution of the United States where each state was viewed as a separate, yet unified entity (i.e. country).

**EDIT: I wanted to add to this. I think regulation is still a government function (such as the FDA, EPA, etc) to protect the citizens nationally. Let the industries do their thing, but give them guidelines.

So you want us to return to the Articles of Confederation? I don't know if that is what you are implying, but I sure hope not. That would be a complete disaster. Devolution would be suicide, if that happens, you can kiss all your civil rights and liberties goodbye.