10-19-2011, 05:30 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-19-2011, 06:20 AM by FireIceTalon.)
Me and Kand fundamentally disagree on that issue, no use arguing about it cause neither of us will change the others mind.
I will say this though: Totalitarianism (which can occur in any kind of system, be it capitalist, socialist, communist, fascist/neo-corporate, etc), not socialism, is slavery. But most people mistakenly conflate the two (many do not even know what these terms truly mean and use them blindly, like the Tea Partiers who call Obama a Marxist - lol...he is anything but), they have no relationship to one another. Early Marxist philosophers like Rosa Luxemburg, even warned Lenin that a Vanguard revolution would lead to totalitarianism/dictatorship and would undermine the very principles of socialism (something I agree with), although Lenin at heart, I don't think was a bad guy. Stalin and Mao are a different story of course, but they were anything but socialist. They couldn't have cared less about the concerns of others, or about equality, freedom, justice and democracy, thus any reasonable and self-respecting socialist or commie should, and does, view them as despicable. They had only their own desire for power in mind, nothing else. The revolution, according to the early socialists, had to come from the workers, not a small central party, and it had to begin in the highest capitalist society (which at the time, meant Germany rather than Russia).
I do have to say, Winston Churchill certainly had a way with words, heh. But he was wrong
I will say this though: Totalitarianism (which can occur in any kind of system, be it capitalist, socialist, communist, fascist/neo-corporate, etc), not socialism, is slavery. But most people mistakenly conflate the two (many do not even know what these terms truly mean and use them blindly, like the Tea Partiers who call Obama a Marxist - lol...he is anything but), they have no relationship to one another. Early Marxist philosophers like Rosa Luxemburg, even warned Lenin that a Vanguard revolution would lead to totalitarianism/dictatorship and would undermine the very principles of socialism (something I agree with), although Lenin at heart, I don't think was a bad guy. Stalin and Mao are a different story of course, but they were anything but socialist. They couldn't have cared less about the concerns of others, or about equality, freedom, justice and democracy, thus any reasonable and self-respecting socialist or commie should, and does, view them as despicable. They had only their own desire for power in mind, nothing else. The revolution, according to the early socialists, had to come from the workers, not a small central party, and it had to begin in the highest capitalist society (which at the time, meant Germany rather than Russia).
I do have to say, Winston Churchill certainly had a way with words, heh. But he was wrong
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"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (addressing the bourgeois)
"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (addressing the bourgeois)