12-06-2011, 10:28 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-07-2011, 05:07 AM by FireIceTalon.)
More like: You wish it was opinion. Self-evident conditions do not carry the burden of proof. You say there is equal opportunity, I say there isn't. Burden of proof is on YOU homie, not me. I'm claiming a negative, and a negative never has to be proven. The person making the claim of a positive, existing fact has the duty to prove his or her claim. It's the same thing with those of faith, and atheists.....burden of proof is on believers, not on atheists. Fact, end of story.
Edit* And as far as Statistics or facts go, you don't want to go there anyway, cause they most certainly do not help your case. The class you are born into largely determines where you will end up in life (50%+ for the very top and bottom, somewhat less in between). Other factors I named before, such as knowing certain people, being in the right place at the right time, and just plain luck come into play also. Hard work can help in exceptional cases but it is NOT the rule, or most of us would be millionaires. Chances are, if you are born into wealth, you will be wealthy for most or all of your life and probably never have to lift a finger again. Likewise, if you are born into poverty, chances are you will be poor most of your life. And further, when social mobility does occur (in either direction), it usually is a change of one socio-economic class, not a complete swing from one end of the spectrum to the other. So if you are super rich and have a stroke of bad luck, you might be only just "plain" rich (however that is defined) then, or if you were born into poverty, you may get lucky and become working class (in rare cases you will reach middle class and in even more rare cases, the top).
Lastly, once again, you are wrong, and this proves everything I said above to be true (go to the income mobility tab to see what I mean). My ultimate point is that we do NOT have equality of opportunity, and indeed we do not. This is an undeniable fact, and it shouldn't even be up for debate as far as I or any other half-way rational person with conventional wisdom is concerned. What's more, those numbers are from 1988-1998. From 1998-present, I bet the mobility is even less given the austerity that has occurred the last decade coupled with broken system of capitalism, once again, falling into crises (partially due to reactionary policies). You wanted evidence, now you got it. Good game, thanks for playing, better luck next time.
Horatio Alger fantasies are truly some of the most carcinogenic philosophies ever.
Edit* And as far as Statistics or facts go, you don't want to go there anyway, cause they most certainly do not help your case. The class you are born into largely determines where you will end up in life (50%+ for the very top and bottom, somewhat less in between). Other factors I named before, such as knowing certain people, being in the right place at the right time, and just plain luck come into play also. Hard work can help in exceptional cases but it is NOT the rule, or most of us would be millionaires. Chances are, if you are born into wealth, you will be wealthy for most or all of your life and probably never have to lift a finger again. Likewise, if you are born into poverty, chances are you will be poor most of your life. And further, when social mobility does occur (in either direction), it usually is a change of one socio-economic class, not a complete swing from one end of the spectrum to the other. So if you are super rich and have a stroke of bad luck, you might be only just "plain" rich (however that is defined) then, or if you were born into poverty, you may get lucky and become working class (in rare cases you will reach middle class and in even more rare cases, the top).
Lastly, once again, you are wrong, and this proves everything I said above to be true (go to the income mobility tab to see what I mean). My ultimate point is that we do NOT have equality of opportunity, and indeed we do not. This is an undeniable fact, and it shouldn't even be up for debate as far as I or any other half-way rational person with conventional wisdom is concerned. What's more, those numbers are from 1988-1998. From 1998-present, I bet the mobility is even less given the austerity that has occurred the last decade coupled with broken system of capitalism, once again, falling into crises (partially due to reactionary policies). You wanted evidence, now you got it. Good game, thanks for playing, better luck next time.
Horatio Alger fantasies are truly some of the most carcinogenic philosophies ever.
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"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (addressing the bourgeois)
"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (addressing the bourgeois)