What is Occupy Wallstreet?

[Lissa]

You're deflecting. You're own listing a few posts pack show that poverty grew between 2010 and 2009 and further grew even more since 2000. The only lessening, was between 1993 and 2000 when the US entered a boom time that has been unprecedented in decades prior or sense.

And, I think you may be myopic. I'm saying that the doom and gloom is the meat and potatoes of an industry.

"And no longer do Americans share the great expectations of generations past. For the first time, public-opinion polls show that the average U.S. citizen is not at all sure that his children's lot will be better than – or even as good as – his own." -- Newsweek, 1980, "An Economic Dream in Peril"


Gallup - public opinion -- is a measure of current optimism, more than anything else. But, still... In the face of the worst recession ever, 44% of all people still are optimistic that youth will be better off than their parents. When limited to actual youth (18-29) that percentage of optimists climbs to 57%. No, the studies show that over time, most everyone is better off than they were a decade ago in real inflation adjusted measures of "well off". Where today's "Occupy Wallstreet" crowd are complaining is in their relative proportion of the larger pie. Their aggregate piece of the pie grew only a little, while that nebulous upper 1%'s portion grew much larger. But, as the Treasury department study I posted earlier showed, the people in that top 1% change over time as well. More like a hotel, where people are constantly moving in and out of the lower quality, middle quality, and higher quality rooms. But, overall, most everyone benefited from a larger economy, and many more people moved up, than moved down.

Poverty trends -- as bad now as in 1983, or 1993. And, maybe it will get worse.

Looking at the American experience, from the rapid economic boom bust cycles in the mid to late 1800's, the Civil War, WWI, WWII, that there were times when a majority of people must have seen the end of the "American Dream", if not the end of civilization itself.

Once again, you're deflecting. Opportunity is eroding, you even said so yourself, and thus so too is the equality of opportunity. You cannot have one erode and another stay the same when they are essentially the same. This is not arguing apples and oranges, this is arguing apples to apples. You cannot have opportunity erode while having the equality of opportunity stay the same, either both have to stay the same, both have to increase, or both have to decrease. They are tied together. If one erodes, so to does the other have to erode, they are not exclusive to each other, they are inclusive of each other.

Likewise, if you agree than we have eroding opportunity, it logically follows that the equality of opportunity is also eroding. You cannot have opportunity erode while saying at the same time that everyone has an equal chance of opportunity. Opportunity would have to stay even for the equality of chance to stay the same. You cannot have an erosion of one and expect the other aspect to stay the same or even grow.

How does it follow? When employers stop employing, they don't just stop employing minorities. It happens that since young people enter the work force (at about 18), they are being unintentionally discriminated upon by the shortage of employment opportunities. The shortage of jobs is also worsened due to the economic down turn, where more older people are hanging onto their jobs longer than they otherwise would have.

But, it really depends on that youths circumstances. For example, our university will graduate about 100 new accountants next spring. They all have jobs already lined up. But, another approach is to realistically look at expected US GDP growth over the next 20 years. Who is going to earn that money?

For perspective -- 200 countries over 200 years in 5 minutes I just don't see the world regressing. World wide, there is more wealth creation, and people are better off than ever before, and I think that trend will continue for another hundred years (at least).

Once again, try staying on topic. The fact is, opportunity has decreased and it continues to decrease. Jobs are being lost and not coming back because of the push for automation along with decreases in working condition (and s'posed increase in productivity which, in essence, is having less people do more).

Likewise, the wealth creation you state isn't really wealth creation, but wealth concentration as high paying jobs are being destroyed to create more low paying jobs that do not even come close to the same amount of wealth going out and that difference in wealth is going into the pockets of a few. As much as you want to say that rest of the world is better off, it is not. Those with large amounts of wealth are concentrating more wealth at the expense of those that were being paid good salaries now being decimated, those with extremely low salaries getting a few more pennies, and those with a high amount of wealth continue to concentrate that difference wealth lost from those that lost good salary positions as those positions were redistributed to much, much lowered salary positions.