What is Occupy Wallstreet?

[kandrathe]

Kandrathe, I know there is social mobility in the US, it would be stupid to ignore that but I have many problems with the American dream. The American dream might exist despite the way the US social and political system is setup.

I believe there is a tipping point where it costs an average (or above salary) just to live, leaving very little for savings or investing. If the government subsidizes low incomes, then people are comfortably trapped in the bowl, without the means to climb out. Otherwise, civic unrest would break the structures holding people in their gilded societal cage. I'm not saying that the government shouldn't help the disadvantaged. I'm saying that a collusion of making people comfortable, AND removing all opportunities is what creates a de facto gilded social prison.

It is probably a lot easier for someone from a low social class to 'make it' in the Netherlands, or Sweden than it is in the US, and indeed we don't whine about the 'Dutch or Swedish dream' all the time.

I haven't really looked into it. The one thing fascinating and also somewhat repugnant (if it is true) to me about Europe is it's apparent entrenchment. For example, you go a a place in Haarlam, and the same buildings are owned by the same hereditary people for hundreds of years. The "who's who" never really changes. In places, I think we are also getting towards that more and more in the US, where there really is an advantage to being born in the right family. But, here it is still fairly dynamic, with some instances of 2nd generation "new money", like Donald Trump, son of real-estate tycoon Fred Trump.

The amount of taxes someone (let's say an entrepreneur) has to pay over his (or her) profits will not define how successful he (or she) is.

Fixed that for you. Well, yes it does. having run a small business, taxes are a part of the expense that eliminates "profit". Profitless enterprises cease to exist, and eliminate the source for the taxation, and the employment. So... Like an ecosystem, you need to have the proper balance of all things to keep it thriving. If costs are too high, then prices become too high, and people stop buying your product or service.

And for that.....if you just look at money....you are probably right about communist states but I think that even in the Soviet Union it was easier for someone from the lower classes to become successful and rise up in the ranks because of his or her talents, efforts.

Or, their quality of life. There were some things, like science, or parts of academia that flourished in the Soviet Union, as long as it was in the interest of the State. But, others, like being Jewish, or an open member of the Orthodox church that suffered. If your interests aligned with State interests, then you were subsidized, if not, you were ignored or persecuted.

Anyway, again not stating that that society was better than yours, but just to indicate that the concept of 'the American dream' can better be forgotten.

It is mostly a romantic notion resurrected by literary people to stir up consternation, and ultimately to promote various media and sell more advertising. "Woe is us, the American Dream is dead".

It is a concept made up by the wealthy and famous to keep the people happy.

I don't think so, really. The wealthy people I know don't worry about coercing the lower classes. We are very good at deluding ourselves, they just go along with our current passions, and make hay with it. They are the ones selling "Occupy Wallstreet" t-shirts.