06-29-2008, 02:43 PM
"Nationalizing the oil industry means he kicked out western companies and stole the wealth for himself"
Are you saying the oil didn't belong to Iraq, but to western oil companies? And you still insist the war had nothing to do with oil or profit?
"Literacy at the end of a gun, how magnanimous. And, UNESCO even gave him an award! UNESCO gave him an award for eradicating illiteracy by force. Maybe that would work for health care?"
It said punishable by 3 years jail. It said that because of it, many Iraqis learned to read and write. It says nowhere that people were threatened, shot, or actually sent to jail. It also doesn't say why UNESCO gave the award. Do you often see things that aren't there?
"Um, did you read the HRW report?"
Did you? You don't seem to agree with it. Also, in none of the links you provided there is actual evidence shown that it really was Saddam Hussein who was responsible. All it says is that many of the deaths are from the time that he was in power, and that a few of the mass graves are big enough to suspect that autorities were involved. That's all. But as we have seen these last years, shooting others and dumping them in a hole is quite popular over there. And don't forget that Saddam Hussein was never convicted for all of this. There wasn't any proof, so they had to use a single attack on a village, in 1982, where hundreds (not thousands) were killed.
"When the US gave him the ultimatum to..."
The US doesn't have the right to give ultimatums. But seriously, do you really think a blackmail scheme like this was going to work? Wasn't he a dictator that didn't care for his people? Trying to force him by hurting those people must seem like a bad plan, if you believe all that.
"In other words, the death rate in Iraq today is less than half of the rate suffered under Saddam"
Doesn't look like a reliable site, where you got this from. Lots of advertising and one-sided opinions, but no sources. A banner that counts the days since Obama was in Iraq? How insinuating can you be, without being ridiculous?
But let's take a look at that claim. According to your numbers, before the war 16000 lives a year were lost. So, that should be 8000 a year since the invasion, or some 40000 between 2003 and 2008. That's odd, because estimates for that period range from 150000 to 1000000. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
"The programme was introduced by United States President Bill Clinton's administration in 1995"
I didn't know that, but I did know that Clinton wasn't the worst president of the USA, and maybe the best in the past decades. Anyway, back then they propably didn't realize all the consequences, or maybe they thought the oil trading would be mostly with the USA.
"...heavily involved in getting kick backs on corrupt oil sales. Then, there was also the outright smuggling of oil from Iraq."
What are corrupt oils sales? Transactions that don't involve dollars? And the smuggling? Did they use invisible tankers for that? Either way, I don't see what this has to do with the Food for Oil program.
Ah well, this discussion is getting rather pointless. Isn't your time better spent looking for reasons to declare war on Iran?
Are you saying the oil didn't belong to Iraq, but to western oil companies? And you still insist the war had nothing to do with oil or profit?
"Literacy at the end of a gun, how magnanimous. And, UNESCO even gave him an award! UNESCO gave him an award for eradicating illiteracy by force. Maybe that would work for health care?"
It said punishable by 3 years jail. It said that because of it, many Iraqis learned to read and write. It says nowhere that people were threatened, shot, or actually sent to jail. It also doesn't say why UNESCO gave the award. Do you often see things that aren't there?
"Um, did you read the HRW report?"
Did you? You don't seem to agree with it. Also, in none of the links you provided there is actual evidence shown that it really was Saddam Hussein who was responsible. All it says is that many of the deaths are from the time that he was in power, and that a few of the mass graves are big enough to suspect that autorities were involved. That's all. But as we have seen these last years, shooting others and dumping them in a hole is quite popular over there. And don't forget that Saddam Hussein was never convicted for all of this. There wasn't any proof, so they had to use a single attack on a village, in 1982, where hundreds (not thousands) were killed.
"When the US gave him the ultimatum to..."
The US doesn't have the right to give ultimatums. But seriously, do you really think a blackmail scheme like this was going to work? Wasn't he a dictator that didn't care for his people? Trying to force him by hurting those people must seem like a bad plan, if you believe all that.
"In other words, the death rate in Iraq today is less than half of the rate suffered under Saddam"
Doesn't look like a reliable site, where you got this from. Lots of advertising and one-sided opinions, but no sources. A banner that counts the days since Obama was in Iraq? How insinuating can you be, without being ridiculous?
But let's take a look at that claim. According to your numbers, before the war 16000 lives a year were lost. So, that should be 8000 a year since the invasion, or some 40000 between 2003 and 2008. That's odd, because estimates for that period range from 150000 to 1000000. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
"The programme was introduced by United States President Bill Clinton's administration in 1995"
I didn't know that, but I did know that Clinton wasn't the worst president of the USA, and maybe the best in the past decades. Anyway, back then they propably didn't realize all the consequences, or maybe they thought the oil trading would be mostly with the USA.
"...heavily involved in getting kick backs on corrupt oil sales. Then, there was also the outright smuggling of oil from Iraq."
What are corrupt oils sales? Transactions that don't involve dollars? And the smuggling? Did they use invisible tankers for that? Either way, I don't see what this has to do with the Food for Oil program.
Ah well, this discussion is getting rather pointless. Isn't your time better spent looking for reasons to declare war on Iran?