11-05-2004, 12:24 PM
Hail Occhi,
just one point I want to adress, quite possibly because of just having read that Alawi called Germany a "spectator state" in regard of the Iraq situation:
Just for the record, I'd like to mention that the reluctance there is in deploying German forces abroad has historical reasons, and I'm sure you're aware of them. After Big Mistake No. 2, the Bundeswehr was designed as a rather pure defensive force, designed to hold off the Warsaw Pact forces, should they ever come.
This concept was implemented in the law, and up to the 1990's, sending German troops abroad would have been against the constitution. Granted; I'm pretty sure that this was not true anymore when the Balkan erupted, but it led to a psychological effect in Germany. In fact, Defense Minister Struck has just announced that a lot (100+) Bundeswher facilities will be closed as a part of reshaping the Bundeswehr, away from massive tank brigades in the Fulda Gap to a smaller, more mobile Rapid Reaction Force.
Well, don't get me wrong with what I say now, because I'n not accusing the US of warmongering here: It's just that because of the things mentioned above, Germany picks its out-of-area deployments very carefully, even, as I sometimes think, to the point of overdoing it.
Coming back on topic here:
I've seen people mention that some or a lot of Europeans now hate the US, and I've also seen people point out that this is surely not the case. I'm also pretty sure that "hate" is too strong a word for any feelings people here in Europe might have for American citizens, or even the US government.
What I'd like to point out is that Bush is perceived differently here than in the US. All the opposition to him here is due to the actions taken in Iraq, and maybe, Afgahnistan (which to me was a straight national-security action). As I read today, that topic was only number three among the things influencing the US voter's decision, social issues and "morality" being the number one and two reasons (source for this was an article on www.spiegel.de).
Now, all this is to say that when we're critizizing George W. Bush, it may well be for other reasons than you (the US citizens) may be critizizing him. The, shall we say, negative feelings here in Germany have their cause in the Iraq war, not in the fact that we generally dislike the President of th USA or it's people. And because of this, there is a lot of uncertainty as to what will happen in the next years, the USA being the last superpower.
Well, long post to say a simple thing... but I guess I'm finished for now.
Take care,
Lord_Olf
just one point I want to adress, quite possibly because of just having read that Alawi called Germany a "spectator state" in regard of the Iraq situation:
Occhidiangela,Nov 5 2004, 05:26 AM Wrote:Heck, the Germans ducked Bosnia, back when NATO had to unscrew that mess.
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Just for the record, I'd like to mention that the reluctance there is in deploying German forces abroad has historical reasons, and I'm sure you're aware of them. After Big Mistake No. 2, the Bundeswehr was designed as a rather pure defensive force, designed to hold off the Warsaw Pact forces, should they ever come.
This concept was implemented in the law, and up to the 1990's, sending German troops abroad would have been against the constitution. Granted; I'm pretty sure that this was not true anymore when the Balkan erupted, but it led to a psychological effect in Germany. In fact, Defense Minister Struck has just announced that a lot (100+) Bundeswher facilities will be closed as a part of reshaping the Bundeswehr, away from massive tank brigades in the Fulda Gap to a smaller, more mobile Rapid Reaction Force.
Well, don't get me wrong with what I say now, because I'n not accusing the US of warmongering here: It's just that because of the things mentioned above, Germany picks its out-of-area deployments very carefully, even, as I sometimes think, to the point of overdoing it.
Coming back on topic here:
I've seen people mention that some or a lot of Europeans now hate the US, and I've also seen people point out that this is surely not the case. I'm also pretty sure that "hate" is too strong a word for any feelings people here in Europe might have for American citizens, or even the US government.
What I'd like to point out is that Bush is perceived differently here than in the US. All the opposition to him here is due to the actions taken in Iraq, and maybe, Afgahnistan (which to me was a straight national-security action). As I read today, that topic was only number three among the things influencing the US voter's decision, social issues and "morality" being the number one and two reasons (source for this was an article on www.spiegel.de).
Now, all this is to say that when we're critizizing George W. Bush, it may well be for other reasons than you (the US citizens) may be critizizing him. The, shall we say, negative feelings here in Germany have their cause in the Iraq war, not in the fact that we generally dislike the President of th USA or it's people. And because of this, there is a lot of uncertainty as to what will happen in the next years, the USA being the last superpower.
Well, long post to say a simple thing... but I guess I'm finished for now.
Take care,
Lord_Olf
"I don't like to brag, I don't like to boast, but I like hot butter on my breakfast toast!" - Flea