Should civilized nations use "Enhanced Interrogation" techni

[Zenda]

Um, I'm not sure what kind of twisted logic you like to use, but an example is merely that, an single data point in a vast universe of data points. Now, I could go hunt up another example to try to counter your example, but that is also fruitless because we'd merely have two data points in the universe of data points.

We are talking about torture here. How many people do you want to see waterboarded to prove a point? As for finding a counter example, don't you think a reporter would have looked for one, before volunteering?

I think you are having the same problem with me, that you did with Pete. You have assumed something that is not true, merely to carry on an argument.

No, I'm just curious if I should see your telling about your abilities as an argument in this discussion, or as anecdote. And in relation to that, if you see waterboarding as cruel torture which should never be applied, or as an acceptable means to extract needed information. Seemingly simple questions, but hard to get a direct answer for.

Let me make clear, btw, that I have little trouble believing you about this ability. There are stranger medical facts than this on record. But imo it has nothing to do with waterboarding, or torture in general.

In my first post I said, that not all torture is the same, and not all reasons for torture are equal. I compared the violent torture used by the sheik in revenge for a deal gone bad, to that used by intelligence professionals to elicit information of future terrorist attacks which may have cost thousands of lives.

I thought the verdict about that incident was that there is no comparing between this barbaric act and modern torture (post #7). The UAE are among the most backward nations in the world when it comes to Human Rights, and I saw no reason to argue there.

But, to get back to your initial question: do *you* think civilized nations should use "enhanced interrogation techniques" to "elicit information of future terrorist attacks which may have cost thousands of lives"? I was assuming you do, but that might have been a mistake. You could ofcourse, also avoid answering by claiming that it depends on the actual technique used. In that case, I'd wonder if desecrating an American flag would be considered 'marmelade' or 'strawberry jam';)

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/06/...ure/index1.html

"In addition to sexual humiliation, psychological duress is a big part of the program and comes in a variety of flavors, including an overall assault on a soldier's values. Mock interrogators desecrated an American flag, stepped on a copy of the Constitution, and 'kicked the Bible around,' the Ranger said"

If you are in favor of 'certain acceptable torture techniques' because they might save lives, you are making the false assumption that they do. I'm sure even Cheney doesn't really believe that. These anecdotes will propably not convince you, but I'm going to show them nevertheless:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle6196196.ece

"(Obama) also rebuffed claims that they were necessary to save lives by yielding vital intelligence on al-Qaeda plots."

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/05/...ture/index.html

"An FBI agent testifies that an al-Qaida prisoner provided useful intelligence until the CIA got rough -- and casts doubt on Bush's statements about the effectiveness of harsh interrogations."

http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2009/...eney/index.html

"Dick Cheney keeps saying 'enhanced interrogation' was used to stop imminent attacks, but evidence is mounting that the real reason was to invent evidence linking Saddam Hussein to al-Qaida."

"Cheney now claims that he preserved the country from terrorism and saved thousands and perhaps hundreds of thousands of lives. We need a serious investigation, with witnesses including the former vice-president under oath, to determine what he and his associates actually did with the brutal powers they arrogated to themselves -- because instead their actions cost thousands upon thousands of American and Iraqi lives, all in the service of a political lie."

My conclusion was that even though it would be "torturous", knowing that your captors would not let you die would free you to fully submit to unconsciousness without fear of death.

If only that was true. All those evil terrorists would train themselves and make torture ineffective. Our governments would abandon it and we here would have nothing to discuss.