Occhidiangela,Aug 22 2005, 11:21 AM Wrote:How disappointing. The Nissan, Toyota, and Honda theme of quality was an "in your face" assault on Detroit's indifference. To a certain extent, American car companies responded well enough to that quality standard. Hate to see German car companies fall into the Big Three mental trap. As buy American as I am, I still love VW's. My first ever car was a Bug. :D
I see the immense price differential, I get it. :) I would myself own a Toyota Sienna minivan were it not for an $8,000 dollar price delta between it and the Chrysler Grand Voyager we do own. Lucky for me, a "buy American" loyalty was able to find a car model that was pretty much an industry standard, but if Toyota had come down a few thousand, I think we would have gone with them. My sister swears by Toyota Camray's, as does my sister in law.
I am looking at Scion for a next commuter car, which I don't think is an American brand of Toyota. Intriguing cars, but the price just shot up on two of the models, locally, due I think to the price of gas going up. What I could have had for $13,800 last year will cost me just under $18,000.
New car just became a non option.
Cost plus is achievable in this area for some fuel efficient models, and a Toyota Prius Hybrid is hard to get one's hands on. But they are over $20,000 to start with, and thus out of my car budget.
Occhi
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I would take a Toyota over a VW / Audi (they're the same, believe it or not) any day of the week. I swore off VW awhile ago. Never really liked them to begin with, the quality behind their engineering has gone so far downhill as to be backwards and archaic.
Case in point: a certain year of Passat (not sure if it's all years, but I know of one year - think it was 2000 or 1999) requires you to remove the entire fuel tank just to change a fuel filter; what's a 15 minute job on a Saab is a two-hour job on a VW. And there are loads of other examples.
I don't know how it is working at a dealer, but for an independent, which is where most people go to save money on car repairs, it's a PITA working on any VW or Audi. Now, some of that is just my mechanics bitching from working in the industry too long, but far from all of it. There's a reason Foreign Motors West doesn't carry VW / Audi parts. :P
Now, that's not to say that VW / Audi aren't great cars to own. They're just horrible cars to work on (Audi especially). And each car has its vices. We see more Jettas in for coolant problems than any other car I know of, and the biggest problem is there's no drain plug in the radiator - you literally have to just rip the hose out and let it spew anti-freeze all over the floor. Worse, when you're finally done, there's no way to force the air out of the system - you have to just burp it by driving it, and that can quite literally take days, during which time the car will continuously overheat until it has finally passed all the air. Audi's come in for control arm problems ALL the time, and for much of the work it's practically a necessity to take the whole nose off the car in order to work, because there's just not enough room.
But, hey, don't let me dissuade you from buying them. My g/f's parents own a Passat, and her father was a die-hard "buy American " before that. The Passat made him rethink that, at least for a moment. ;) It's his wife's car, though, so he only drives it occassionally, but even he loves it. Myself, I don't particularly care for them. But, then, I hate most all new cars, including my old favorite the Saab. They've gone so far from where they used to be, it's hard to even call them Saabs anymore, mostly due to GM's influence IMHO. Give me an '86 900 Turbo any day of the week, and I'll be happy. :) Although when my old girl finally dies ('86 900 S), I may just look into getting a good used 9-3. Shhh, don't tell my father - he'd have a coronary. ;) Besides, the '05 9-3 Aero Convertible is a dream to look at, and has a 6-speed manual transmission. Drool.... :D One thing that hasn't changed about Saabs - they still know how to run good and handle like a dream. :) But they're WAY overpriced, IMHO.
Anyway, enough ranting. Cars are a crappy deal any way you slice it, so I generally recommend doing a LOT of homework (Consumer Reports doesn't count :P; talk to mechanics, too, and use their advice as a guide in your overall decision), and try not to spend too much, especially on the luxuries. Between gas, repairs (this is where the Japanese cars shine - lifelong ownership with minimal repairs; Toyotas especially have a good reputation), and plain old depreciation, it's simply a waste to spend more on a car than you have to. Especially when its original purpose was simply as a faster means of transportation. A lot of people tend to forget that in lieu of "neat" features (myself included from time to time).
Oh, and one note about the hybrids - great cars, from what I understand. Too early to tell for long-term ownership, though. Higher up-front costs mean you need a longer term of ownership to get any benefit from the fuel-efficiency savings, although recent months have cut that down quite a bit. Forward-thinking, though, would push one towards owning a hybrid despite the higher costs, if only to be globally-conscious, and knowing that sooner or later your investment will pay off.
