[RANT] Angel's canceled?

[DeeBye]

There were only something like 6 episodes filmed.  My dad and I were bummed out when we found out; we had watched every single one as soon as it aired.  :(

My wife and I felt the same. To be honest, I only started watching Kindred because I was RPlaying the game with a group of friends at the time. My wife was never interested in the "OMG GEEKY ROLEPLAYER!!" stuff, but she watched the show with me.

Turns out she got hooked on Kindred: The Embraced faster than I did. We watched it religiously.

Then it was cancelled. Then one of the main character actors died in a motorcycle accident a few months later. No hope for a series resurrection. I almost wanted to smash my TV and strangle the retarded network execs for cancelling it in the first place.

Also, the production values skyrocketed from the first season to the last (third?); the characters look much better the farther in you go. I guess that could have influenced me.

I believe it actually ran for 4 seasons.

The reason the characters looked better was because they added another 8 MBs of RAM to all of their modelling computers (they might have also have upgraded their CPUs to Pentium Pros instead of the Pentium 60s they were previously using, but this rumour is unsubstantiated [and completely fabricated by myself just now]).

I want me some Reboot now.

Me too. YTV used to run it once in a while, but I haven't seen an episode of ReBoot in a long time.

[Occhidiangela]

Saw a couple of episodes of Angel a week or two ago. Interesting show, strikes me as a well made comic book series in celluloid form. I was never much of a Buffy fan, I found the premise trite. (I was probably biased by having first seen movie ages ago. I had no hope that the TV show would be worth my time, though apparently there was some quality in the production that I missed out on. So be it. Miss Gellar is a fine cover girl and cosmetics company shill, in any case.)

Hill Street Blues was a great show, for a cop show, and it too reached its limit. Dallas was a decent serial drama, but it reached its limit. M*A*S*H was a decent and frequently funny, show but it turned sappy in the last two seasons. SOAP was a great show, but it only lasted a few years.

Police Squad was hilarious, but it was cancelled early, and only resurrected in the Naked Gun movies. Monty Python's flying circus TV show finally ran out of steam.

See a pattern here? ;)

Nothing on TV is forever. That's OK, not even good stuff in literature is forever. Tolkein wrote such a good story that he left his fans hungering for more. Good TV, good movies, and any good story telling all do the same thing: they take us on wings of bardic talent and let us forget, if just for a little while, "our drab wretched lives." (Paraphrase of T. Lehrer) What makes it all special, and so rare, is the story tellers' ability to transport us "somewhere else" and touch us.

Of course, bad TV and bad writing touch us as well, just more along the lines of nausea inducement. I have a modest example available. :D

I just finished, having bought it on a business trip for the plane flight, The Crossroads of Twilight by Robert Jordan, the latest in his Waste of Time series. Not sure why it takes him 700+ pages to tell about 300 pages worth of story, but I must say that the As The Stomach Turns style odyssey of Rand and Friends has become the Trite Soap Opera of all Time in Fantasy Literature.

So, amidst your rending of garments over the loss of Angel and Buffy, remember this: if you want to have a series that just keeps on going, remember that it can turn into an analogue to the Waste of Time. There are human limitations to imagination and effective productivity. Jordan reached his some time ago, in that series. The same can happen on TV. Maybe it is best that the Joss Wheeden shows" quit while they were ahead."

And yes, Friends needed to go away ages ago. :blink:

[[wcip]Angel]

All too true, Occhidiangela, but I still feel Joss had a few more years in him, even though season 5 was a bit weak.

Right now I'm having a blast with "reruns" (tihi) of Babylon5. I had the episodes a few years back but had to remove them due to lack of capacity. Now with new harddiscs, I can afford to indulge myself once more in a little shadowy war-type thingie.

"We are the gray, we stand between the candle and the stars."

I'm not looking forward to the end of season 5 however. I always get all choked up at the end of "Sleep in light."

*checking play.com for prices*

[--Pete]

Hi,

I almost wanted to smash my TV and strangle the retarded network execs for cancelling it in the first place.

That's two cases of shooting the messenger in one sentence :)

Pretty clear that your TV isn't to blame for the trash it receives. As Gallagher says, "There's a brightness button, but it doesn't seem to work." :)

But the network execs aren't to blame, either. Broadcast TV is a for profit business. Profit comes from the price the network can get for advertising time. That, in turn, is determined by the size of the audience. If a "quality" show is run against some "reality" or "wrestling", guess where the audience goes?

So, if you want to blame something for the crap that is 99% of TV, 98% of movies, 95% of books, etc., then blame the ignorant audiences that demand crap instead of sustenance. Blame the "cult of ignorance" that is and has dominated Western "culture" for the past half a century. It's just another example of pure crap driving out mediocre crap.

--Pete

[JustAGuy]

See a pattern here? 

Nothing on TV is forever.

That's too true.

There's one show that has nothing to do with American executives that I can't wait for to return. Red Dwarf. I supposed it's been on hiatus, since it was never really cancelled. The Red Dwarf Movie should be coming out soon, or so they say. Should be interesting to see, considering the series started when the fellas involved were 10 years younger. Now, they're, well, old.

Chris Barrie (Rimmer) said it best in "Body Swap" (Episode 4, season 3):

"You've reached that age Listy. When you're younger you can eat what you like, drink what you like, and still climb into your 26 inch waist trousers and zip them closed. Then you reach that age, 24-25, your muscles give up. They all wave a little white flag, and without any warning at all, you're suddenly a fat bastard."

EDIT: Still waiting for seasons 5-8 to come out on DVD...

[channel1]

Although it's too bad when good shows get axed, at least Buffy and Angel had good runs.
Buffy ended with reasonable closure, and left the concept open if they ever wanted to revive the show, although in a different direction. I expect that they'll do the same with Angel.

There are still good shows being made, although finding them is like looking for a pearl in a pile of manure.

My suggestion right now is This is Wonderland. Absolutely blows me away. Wonderland is NOT a show that you can half-watch while doing something else. There is just so much going on, it takes all you've got just to try to keep up. It really puts the viewer in the same position as the characters, who struggle to extract some order from chaos.

-rcv-

[[wcip]Angel]

From the mouth of God himself:

joss says:
(Sat Feb 14 22:31:16 2004)

Some of you may have heard the hilarious news. I thought this would be a good time to weigh in. to answer some obvious questions: No, we had no idea this was coming. Yes, we will finish out the season. No, I don't think the WB is doing the right thing. Yes, I'm grateful they did it early enough for my people to find other jobs.

Yes, my heart is breaking.

When Buffy ended, I was tapped out and ready to send it off. When Firefly got the axe, I went into a state of denial so huge it may very well cause a movie. But Angel... we really were starting to feel like we were on top, hitting our stride -- and then we strode right into the Pit of Snakes 'n' Lava. I'm so into these characters, these actors, the situations we're building... you wanna know how I feel? Watch the first act of "The Body."

As far as TV movies or whatever, I'm not thinking that far ahead. I actually hope my actors and writers are all too busy. We always planned this season finale to be a great capper to the season and the show in general. (And a great platform for a new season, of course.) We'll proceed ahead as planned.

I've never made mainstream TV very well. I like surprises, and TV isn't about surprises, unless the surprise is who gets voted off of something. I've been lucky to sneak this strange, strange show over the airwaves for as long as I have. I don't FEEL lucky, but I understand that I am.

Thanks all for your support, your community, and your perfectly sane devotion. It's meant a lot. I regret nothing (except the string of grisley murders in the 80's -- what was THAT all about?) Remember the words of the poet:

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the road less traveled by and they CANCELLED MY FRIKKIN' SHOW. I totally shoulda took the road that had all those people on it. Damn."

See you soon.



-j.

http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~hsiao/media/tv/bu...e/20040214.html

------

Although I don't share his sentiments of puking all over the dining room carpet; I was never employed in the making of the show; I am simply a fan. How awful it must be for Joss to see his baby put to sleep; I can certainly understand why he would feel sick to his stomach.

To work for so many years side by side with more or less the same actors, writers and staff; to say good-bye to them all; it must be like losing entire parts of your family.

My sincerest condolences to our mutual friend.

[Occhidiangela]

First of all, in his anguish, dear Mr Weeden calls upon the great Robert Frost's

The Road Not Taken

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth; 5

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same, 10

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back. 15

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
====================================

That poem has been with me since I was about 9. My older brother read it into a microphone while my Dad taped. I then read Longfellow's The Wreck of the Hespress. Dad was a DJ in college, and he liked messing about with audio gear and taping things.

As to Joss, what has made all the difference for him, it seems to me, is that he did indeed take the road less travelled by, which is why his stuff stands out. If he'd put out just any old TV show, he'd not have all that success to deal with. :) I think in a few days he will, with the emotion of a good thing ending having run its course, pick up and try something else different, and of quality.

Judging by the variety of folks here who really like his work, I'd guess he and his closest collaborators will take another interesting journey, and bring his fans along for an interesting ride.

[TriggerHappy]

But the network execs aren't to blame, either. Broadcast TV is a for profit business. Profit comes from the price the network can get for advertising time. That, in turn, is determined by the size of the audience.

Which is why the cancellation of Angel is abit of a mystery.

Angel's ratings this season have been up 11.65% over the last. It's budget has also been dramatically reduced for season 5.

Granted, after 5 seasons the cast and crew contracts are usually renegotiated (with a pay hike for all involved). WB doesn't usually let shows go on for longer than 5 seasons (except their best performers) for this very reason.
Stil, it couldn't have been that huge of an increase in costs considering the already lowered budget and increase in ratings (and therfore advertising revenue). If ratings were down and the show cost as much as ever, the cancellation would make alot more sense. But it's not the case.

I guess WB expected more than 11.65% increase in ratings when they insisted for James Masters (Spike) to be brought aboard (season 5 would not have happened without Spike, by the way) :( .

[TriggerHappy]

Just like with Babylon 5, in order to "get" Buffy, one has to watch it from Episode 1/Season 1 (cheesy as hell) with the knowledge that the show won't realise it's potential until half way through Season 2.

But the viewer will be rewarded for watching those cheesy beginnings. Buffy is an "arc" show, just like B5 (it just has season long arcs instead of a series long arc as B5). It's quality is really hurt when waching an episode here and there.
From your descriptions it seems you've stumbled on it in the last half of season 6 (!), and that's like opening a book and starting to read near the end. The impact and shock of Tara's death couldn't possibly be felt unless somebody watched their relationship grow for 2 and a half seasons before. And that's just one example.

Also i'm of the opinion that much of season 6 was surreal and had weak writing. It's probably the worst season to start watching the show. The show is at it's best starting with half way through season 2 up to the first third of season 6.

I was like you, a huge B5 fan (my fave show, actually), that ignored Buffy until the show was in it's 5th season, because of seing that dreadful movie and a few episodes of the series, having formed an incorrect opinion. It was fun catching up though :) .

Also, Buffy movie, nothing like the show (starting with the 2nd half of season 2).

[cheezz]

Just to let you know that you're not a total jinx to good tv. :D

Babylon 5 was written to be a 5 year series. I heard that somewhere around season 1 or 2.

Of course, I thought that they might keep the show going due to it's popularity, but alas, it was not to be.
The real disappointment was when they decided not to make the promised spin off show.

[WarLocke]

Babylon 5 was written to be a 5 year series.  I heard that somewhere around season 1 or 2.

True, but it was plagued by problems the entire time. B5 never had a very large budget (and much of what they had went to the then-state-of-the-art CGI exterior scenes) - heck, I remember reading somewhere that the show had exactly 1 bedroom set, which they would add/remove stuff from and shoot from different angles for every character's living quarters!

Also, during the fourth season the show was nearly cancelled, and Straczinsky (I probably butchered that) had to try to tie up all the loose ends of a whole fifth season immediately. Then, when the show wasn't canceled, he had to come up with a whole season's worth of new material. The last season was naturally fairly weak, although by no fault of the writers. :angry:

Crusade had some awesome potential, and I hate the damn execs for screwing with it (insisting Straczinsky rewrite the first episode, then showing them out of order, etc etc). Lumberg was just too damn cool (not to even mention Galen...). :(

The second spin off (Legend of the Rangers) was an abortion, though. I want those two hours of my life back. :blink:

[[wcip]Angel]

By the way, Warlocke. Did you manage to find the theme to Angel?

If you haven't yet, I've got it on my computer at home, and will upload as soon as I get home.

[WarLocke]

No. :(

[[wcip]Angel]

Pour vous mon ami. <-- Main and ending theme. (Basically the same thing played twice.)

[WarLocke]

Oh my. Thanks. B)

[LochnarITB]

Angel,Feb 18 2004, 06:00 PM] Pour vous mon ami. <-- Main and ending theme. (Basically the same thing played twice.)

Thank you Angel. I know you posted this for Warlocke but I had to snag it for myself too. The volume is always adjusted much higher for the theme to that show. I'm looking forward to tonight's show. Looks like it will be fun.

[Faragon]

Update from the James Marsters forum...

* Quick Postcard Campaign to Save Angel

Unfortunately, emailing networks or posting in online petitions is a waste of time. As soon as they start getting emails, they set up spam filters to delete the mail and they don’t ever see what comes in. Waiting around for somebody to organize something is wasting precious time--organized campaigns are going to be great but here’s something you can do NOW.

If you want to actually do something that actually might--MIGHT--help to get another season for Angel...

DO THIS TOMORROW

1. Go and buy some postcards that show scenes from your city. Tourist postcards. Postcards that have the name of your town or city or area of the country on them. You don’t need anything fancy, just something that will show immediately where you are located so they know this is coming from all over.

2. Write a short message on the postcard in your own words saying that you want Angel to be renewed and support the show. Keep it positive. Don’t be insulting. Don’t be abusive.

3. Address the postcard to one of the people on the list of addresses in this message. Levin may ignore the cards coming into the WB, but the media outlets will see there’s a story in this and publicize it. The names on the list are in order of importance so start at the top and send as many postcards as you want to (or can afford to send).

4. Go and get at least six friends who probably aren’t reading this on the internet but would be willing to send postcards, and get them to do the same thing.

5. DO IT TOMORROW! Speed of response is what counts along with the size of the response. Don’t wait for instructions from some group. Just DO IT.

Here are the addresses to mail your cards to:

Matt Roush
TV Guide
Box 500
Radnor, PA 19088-0500

The Hollywood Reporter
Attn: Cynthia Littleton
5055 Wilshire Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA 90036-4396

Entertainment Tonight,
Paramount Pictures Domestic TV
Roddenberry Building
5555 Melrose Avenue
Hollywood, CA 90038

Extra
Warner Bros
4000 Warner Blvd.
Triangle Building, 4th Floor
Burbank, CA 91522

Entertainment Weekly
1675 Broadway New York
NY 10019

TNT is the best possibility to pick up Angel since they’ve gotten good ratings with the reruns and do some original programming.

Turner Network Television
Attn: Robert DeBitetto (pres, original programming)
1888 Century Park East, 14th Fl.
Los Angeles, CA 90067

Turner Network Television
Attn: Julie Wietz (exec vp. original programming)
1888 Century Park East, 14th Fl.
Los Angeles, CA 90067

Turner Network Television
Attn: Attn: Mr. Jamie Kellner, Chairman and CEO
1050 Techwood Dr. NW
Atlanta, GA 30318

Turner Network Television
Attn: Garth Ancier, Executive Vice-President, Programming
1050 Techwood Dr. NW
Atlanta, GA 30318

Rumor is that Levin doesn’t accept cards or letters and they get returned, but a flood of mail might make news even if it doesn’t get through

Warner Brothers Network
Attn: Jordan Levin, CEO
4000 Warner Blvd., Building 34R
Burbank, CA 91522
(818) 977-5000

*

And, if you want to send cards to Joss to express support and let him know the level of interest, here’s where to send them:

Joss Whedon
C/o Mutant Enemy Productions
PO Box 900
Beverly Hills, CA 90213

And to send cards supporting the cast and crew:

Angel Productions
20th Century Fox
PO Box, 900
Beverly Hills
CA, 90213-0900

Now, if you actually want to accomplish something, make some news, and maybe, just maybe, get a sixth season for Angel...

Maybe we should make a new thread for this, asking people to help out?

[BigGrim]

...Smile Time was one funny episode. Seriously, how can you not love a show where the main character gets turned into a muppet? The attempts at dramatic shots were absolutely hilarious, particularly the trademark "primary cast walking out together to do battle with evil" shot with Angel-muppet carrying a sword across his cotton stuffed shoulders.

Anyhow, back to the matter at hand. Harking back to Buffy, which could have ended perfectly after the Glory arc, the show did get picked up by UPN who at the very least allowed Joss to give us the magnificent musical episode. I don't think that's going to happen with Angel, since we've all seen Angel sing and...the less said, the better! Although having the episode revolve around Lorne would be spectacular.

While the rumor that Angel is going to UPN is currently unfounded, there are substantial rumblings about the WB putting together a proposal to send Angel off to UPN. Shows on the chopping block to be axed usually don't have much hope, but Angel has more than a little considering what happened to Buffy. UPN isn't exactly known for top rated shows and the current flagship of UPN, Enterprise, isn't doing as well as they'd hoped.

Considering Angel's current condition, I'm hoping that those executives at UPN see the potential dollar signs in picking up Angel, and those at the WB see them too...although not so much that they make Angel an unattractive investment. Here's to Angel following Buffy's footsteps!

-Grim-

[[wcip]Angel]

Gah! "Great maker" as our dear friend Londo Mollari would exclaim while throwing a tantrum

I just saw this week's episode of "Angel", and if this is the premise of the remaining episodes, they can cancel the show with my blessing.
Spoilers:

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1. Evil dead guy with puppet up his spine starts to sing a song. Lorne is right there and he's not picking up the fact that he's, oh I don't know, got a puppet up his ass? I thought he was supposed to "read" people while singing. I guess someone forgot to tell the writers this...

.. I was supposed to move on to item#2 but I just can't get over this.

My God, wasn't the *entire*.. yes the *ENTIRE* (capital letters used to describe anger and frustration) premise of this character the fact that he could "read" people; look into their souls whilst they sang a tune for him? What show am I watching?

Bleh.. moving on...

2. Fred-Wes. Did I just miss an entire season of Fred going from "I'm sorry but I don't love you" to "Ohh slap me with a big wet one, you british head-boy you!"? What the hell?

3. Oh, is Angel dating again? I still don't buy the fact that he's over Buffy, but for argument's sake; let's say he is... Didn't we just recently see a scene of Angel crying his little non-beating heart out when Cordelia "died"? For a man who's been doing some serious brooding for the last couple of centuries, he sure bounces back quickly after he's had his heart broken. I guess brooding bicentannial vamps don't dwell much on old memories..

"Written by Joss Whedon"; in what.. the bizarro world? Even if this *was* the evil alternate dimension from whence Evil Willow came, the script still wouldn't be as crappy as this. Sure I cracked a smile when Puppy-Angel became Puppy-Angelus, but that was the highlight of the episode.

Bleh!! Only continuity I got from this episode was Gunn's loss of fake knowledge which was foreshadowed last week.

Worst episode ever! (even more so than the one previous this season with the mexican wrestlers.)

I still don't know who the villain in season 5 is, and if they decide to continue "The zeppo"ing the remaining episodes, I fear we may never learn.

Minor sidenote:
"Cancer puppet"? It's not "Cancer of the puppies" as stated by Willow in "The Freshman", but it certainly made me think of it.

edit: I feel I should clarify: I *did* like The Zeppo, but
i) This wasn't near as funny
ii) How many of these "humour"-episodes do you want in a season of what is supposed to be a sci-fi drama?
iii) "Humour" does not equal "lack of continuity".
If the remaining episodes of this season are Becomings, Passions, Angels, The Gifts or I will always remember yous, then I'll be happy, but if I see just one more of these crapfests, *I'm* going to throw a tantrum. After, I'll go over to it, pick it up, and throw it once more.