1.0.3, Attack Speed Changes, and Hypocrisy
#1
Does anyone else think it's wrong that the behavior of this logic is wrong (not the individual points, but as a whole):

1) Attack speed is too good, so we need to change the modifiers, and make it retroactive.
2) Legendaries are not that good, so we need to change the modifiers, but we can't make it retroactive.

Now, I understand that point 1) is just a matter of changing the ASI table in the MPQ, and that they can't do that with Legendaries. Legendaries share common affixes with other items, and going forward they will change *something* to make them better. If they changed the affixes, it would mess up every item that has that affix, regardless of rarity class.

Most of the readers here know that also, but to the common player, do you think that this could lead to a backlash?
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#2
I think the SQL query I would write to handle #1 would be an absolute piece of cake, and fast running.

The SQL query I would write to handle #2 would be a big undertaking since they said it would spice up items, as opposed to just changing numbers, and would cause a drastic amount of required computational time as every item needs to randomly pick its new mods.

If all they did on legendaries was boost the numbers, it wouldn't be terrible to handle the update. But then legendaries (weapons, at least) would still be bad in general. Because a weapon without +Damage and +%Damage is nothing, especially at ilvl 62.
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#3
Whoa, they're not making the legendary changes retroactive?
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#4
No, just legendaries dropped after the patch they do it in. (1.1?)

Quark pretty much hit on the reason. Changing one ability in the DBs is relatively simple. Rerolling all the legendaries already dropped is not at all.
--Mav
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#5
So it's another case of "wts 1.08 unique" or whatever patch it was that did that in diablo 2? Tongue
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#6
We do not know what they are doing to Legendaries. They could be scrapping them completely and redesigning from the ground up. They could be taking a completely different approach to the way their stats are determined. I honestly believe there is no way they could make the changes retroactive. The IAS nerf, on the other hand, will be a piece of cake to make retroactive and prevents pre-nerf items from dominating the RMAH and going for obscene prices. I really fail to see the problem with this. The official forum is turning it into some kind of a conspiracy, but they are failing to consider the fundamentals of how the heck Blizzard is supposed to do it.
May the wind pick up your heels and your sword strike true.
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#7
(06-18-2012, 09:03 PM)Elric of Grans Wrote: The official forum is turning it into some kind of a conspiracy, but they are failing to consider the fundamentals of how the heck Blizzard is supposed to do it.

Yeah, the official forum thinks a lot of things can be fixed and tested in five minutes, too. Huh
--Mav
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#8
The simple solution is just to put diminishing returns on IAS and be done with it. Hopefully they won't nerf it badly, but I just sold some decent ias for good amounts of gold so it's no longer my problem. :p
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#9
That is one reason why I posted my understanding of the affixes in the original post. I didn't want to come off as a Blizz conspiracy nut.

The fact that a lot of people don't know how this works, though, could contribute to that on the main forums. Although, from what I've read, everyone over there thinks every change is a conspiracy.
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#10
As expected, they hit IAS with a massive nerf (2-3x reduction on affixes) and don't touch spirit/fury costs at all. Fantastic.
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#11
Blizzard have stated repeatedly that skill balancing is coming in 1.1.0, only after players have hammered out every possibility and there is no doubt about what needs doing. They have made nerfs on things obviously too good, but changes like resource costs are a long way off. Personally, I think they are holding off too long. They will likely have lost a lot of the community by then, as people become frustrated at how many skill/rune options are obviously terrible.
May the wind pick up your heels and your sword strike true.
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#12
(06-18-2012, 10:30 PM)Elric of Grans Wrote: They will likely have lost a lot of the community by then, as people become frustrated at how many skill/rune options are obviously terrible.

We keep having favorable comparisons of D2 vs D3, and then someone says something like this, when D2 was unbalanced for far longer than a month or two on launch.

Which way is it? I keep hearing that D2 was so much better and had so much longevity, but D3 is supposed to lose (in your words) 'a lot of the community' over a couple months getting the balance patch out...I'm confused.
--Mav
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#13
(06-18-2012, 09:57 PM)Athenau Wrote: As expected, they hit IAS with a massive nerf (2-3x reduction on affixes) and don't touch spirit/fury costs at all. Fantastic.

I don't think any of the costs were made with 3+ APS in mind.

Of course most fury/spirit dumps are junk anyway so it's arguable they were never balanced at any APS.
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#14
The nerfs as proposed, feel a bit too extreme. Blizzard tends to go for the more subtle changes... at least it worked well for the Starcraft series. Stuff would get weaker but still managable. Cutting item by 1/2 seems too extreme.
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#15
Quote:I don't think any of the costs were made with 3+ APS in mind.
A blanket nerf affects more than people stacking tons of IAS though. I would've preferred diminishing returns to this.

Quote:Of course most fury/spirit dumps are junk anyway so it's arguable they were never balanced at any APS.
A lot of monk builds rely heavily on transcendence heals and the active effect on mantras. They'll be hurt by the IAS changes.
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#16
(06-18-2012, 11:12 PM)Athenau Wrote: A lot of monk builds rely heavily on transcendence heals and the active effect on mantras. They'll be hurt by the IAS changes.

They rely on that now, come 1.03 with the damage changes to Inferno mobs they shouldn't, hypothetically, need to rely on heal spam as much to stay upright. At least if they have any semblence of decent gear.

It's been my experience now, that a well geared monk can either tank anything indefinitely or they go splat in the first five seconds. There isn't any in-between. Hopefuly the changes to both damage and AS will help to broaden that out.
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#17
(06-18-2012, 09:11 PM)Archon_Wing Wrote: The simple solution is just to put diminishing returns on IAS and be done with it. Hopefully they won't nerf it badly, but I just sold some decent ias for good amounts of gold so it's no longer my problem. :p

As much as possible, they're trying to keep the formulas for things clear and simple. When the formula can't be clear, they try to make the effect quickly noticeable in the character screen (like armor damage reduction). They said in the chat that they were going back and forth on whether to use diminishing returns on IAS so that they wouldn't have to change items or to change items and keep the formula simple. They chose the later option, and I agree that it was the right call. It's one moment's confusion versus years of confusion down the road.

Quote:2) Legendaries are not that good, so we need to change the modifiers, but we can't make it retroactive.

This way, the people who used chest exploits to farm legendaries aren't rewarded for their past exploits. Now, they're going to have to use new exploits -- or perhaps, perhaps, play the game to get the new legendaries.
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#18
(06-18-2012, 11:09 PM)Archon_Wing Wrote: The nerfs as proposed, feel a bit too extreme. Blizzard tends to go for the more subtle changes... at least it worked well for the Starcraft series. Stuff would get weaker but still managable. Cutting item by 1/2 seems too extreme.

From what I've seen, for most classes it'll still be the highest DPS stat option on non-weapons, with crit modifiers approaching it if you stacked the opposite crit modifier.
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#19
According to this, crit% and crit damage% surpasses it even pre-nerf, but I honestly haven't tried following the logic in it, so I don't know how accurate it is. Seems plausible, though, I guess.
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#20
Gah, and I JUST picked up two +14% IAS rings from the fence in Inferno Act 1. Ah well, easy come, easy go.
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